Tenkara vs. Western Fly Fishing

[adam]

No.

Not like that.

There are people that choose a tenkara rod and nothing else.


That would be a personal choice.


Western fly fishing has established itself as a great way to fish a small stream. There is proof that it predates tenkara but it could be argued that the early form of fly fishing is closer to tenkara like technique.

Tenkara is old but it is not new. It may be new to you, new to America but it is not new.

Tenkara in its earliest report was a efficient way for professional fisherman to bring fish to market. The earliest forms of Western Fly Fishing was written more about sport, a way to take fish for a meal.

Both are fly fishing.

Tenkara is an extremely efficient form of alpine (small mountain stream) angling. Many choose it as their only form, I do not. Neither does Yoshikazu Fujioka. He and I have corresponded over the years about mountain angling.

When I started smallstreams (.com), I promoted fly fishing the mountain stream. There was even room for fishermen using spinning techniques as long as good ethics were involved.

When Mr. Fujioka began to make his web site from his perspective in Japan, we promoted it without prejudice.

He is a Western Fly Angling enthusiast and also a early tenkara enthusiast. Dare I say the best person to represent tenkara from a Japanese perspective...

There is no tenkara is better than or vs. fly fishing.


Tenkara is fly fishing.


It is the easiest form, so easy nearly any child could be taught it with good success.


Western Fly Anglers by far comprise the larger skill pool. Their knowledge is greater, their skill level of handling a fly line is on par with a master level in comparison with the new to tenkara enthusiasts that will tell you it is the only way to fish.

Be advised that it is easier to catch fish this way but the skill level is shallow in comparison.


I have practiced it myself for three seasons fishing no other type of fly rod.


I have chosen to immerse myself in it to understand it as best as possible. I have researched tenkara choosing books written about it in Japan by the arguably known modern "father of modern tenkara" Soseki Yamamoto. He writes hand in hand about fly fishing (Western techniques) and tenkara.

Do not let tenkara be marketed to you.

Do not drink the media attention seekers kool aid.

Tenkara is just another way of fly fishing the mountain stream, a good choice and nothin more or less.

[mems]

Aloha Adam, I want to tenkara ulua fish. I want a nice bamboo tree, 300lb fluro line. 6/0 hook and a live mullet. I want to dangle that in front of an 80lb ulua and then put on a pair of water skiis and go for a ride. Happy spring break from Hawaii. I would use tenkara or western flyfishing in a small stream anytime. Mems.

[adam]

Extreme pole fishing brah...

Good to read you.

[grayling]

ulua. . . in my dreams 8-) Now o'ama tenkara . . . that entireable doable . . . did that on a regular basis on the north shore Kauai late 1980s . . . finally broke the tip on a papio. Put the rod back in action when i moved to Alaska . . . with an Amago tip from Tenkara USA. Works great. Used it exclusively for dry fly grayling last couple of seasons . . . didn't feel handcapped at all . . . but wlll take the LL and glass rods this season too . . . gotta say grace with the long line . . . it's in my soul.

[gusstrand]

If I had a Tenkara rod, I would use it on my small stream - if I had two, my 10 year old would as well. We don't so we use western rods. Nice perspective Adam, and I agree. I really think it's all the same... peche la mouche... we fish the fly.

[Brooktrout]

tenkara rocks. i am no tenkara expert but to me it is fly fishing in it's simpleist (sp?) form; great for mtn streams. it gives great reach and access to especially spooky fish, that might be difficult to cast to with regular fly gear. i like both tenkara and "traditional" western fly angling both. they each have their strengths.

[Alpinefly]

I believe it is another style of Fly Fishing. It does predate, and is the earliest; the Oriental Feudal system Masters used it to catch their meals (it was efficient). This was also how early Fly Fishing was, then the Reels were just added. Fly Fishing then evolved. Kinda like Bow Hunting. In that I do both the Earlier Long Bow & Recurve (Native American Style Hunting/ instinctive and snap shooting without sites), Mongolian Styles of Archery with the Thumb Rings and Celtic Era Archery; and the Compounds, Hypercams and advanced cam bows with trigger releases and advanced sites. All styles are great sport and challenging. I like the Earlier styles of Fly Fishing and even Fly Tying (In Japan, Fly Tying was and still is one of the honored Zin Arts, just like Archery, etc.). I have returned back to fishing Bamboo, and even reaching into and learning TenkaraTenkara (I am great friends with Mikasa Ishimara, and did a review of her book /Co-Author on Tenkara). I still enjoy the Modern Rods and Fishing style, as well as the Modern Styles of Fly Tying and Designing (being a music teacher and Musician, it is the same way; It is important to be educated in the classical styles as well as the modern styles..........everything evolves.) All of these styles are so exciting and equally important. It has made me a better Fly Tyer/Designer to know the Classic styles (all styles) and Modern Fishable Realistics; the older styles and modern styles of Fly Fishing, Bow Hunting, Black Powder and Modern styles of shooting, classical music to Modern Jazz Fusion and Heavy Metal.

[adam]

Ok, I think I follow you and I might challenge you on a couple of your points but it does not matter.

We agree that it is a form of fly fishing.

...and it is music, not heavy metal.







:)

[adam]

tenkara rocks. i am no tenkara expert but to me it is fly fishing in it's simpleist (sp?) form; great for mtn streams. it gives great reach and access to especially spooky fish, that might be difficult to cast to with regular fly gear. i like both tenkara and "traditional" western fly angling both. they each have their strengths.

You must have been taught by a great American Master?

No?

</kidding>

[martin_b]

Ok, I think I follow you and I might challenge you on a couple of your points but it does not matter.

We agree that it is a form of fly fishing.

...and it is music, not heavy metal.


:)

Just to point out, heavy metal RULLLLLEZZZ! :thumbsup:
http://diepresse.com/images/uploads/2/4/9/401993/wacken20080729115835.jpg

[heathcote]

Western fly fishing: Where did it start? From my reading ancient Greece with a short rod with line attatched (no reel) fishing for trout with a fly made from red wool and a feather. Advance to 1600s in Britain Izaack Walton in 1653 published "The Complete Angler" and he quoted from older work by Dame Juliana Berners of fishing with artificial flies. Long rods with fixed lines were the tools for pleasure fishing up to and including the early 1900s though reels were also used by this time. My first fly rod was of split cane 14ft long and the technique was very similar to tenkara, short line held off the water and the fly worked or dibbled on or close the the surface. Now I have a tenkara rod so light it might as well be made of a feather and my catch rate is as good as the Scotish burns I fished with my 14 ft rod. It is all about presentation and water craft, staying hidden from your prey, becoming a part of the environment as every successful predator must. I supose it is epitomised by the expression "What goes around comes around" so if it floats your boat ..............................

[adam]

Enjoyable read.

I've learned a lot about the history of flye anglin from Jeff Hatton.

Worth a look on the computer...

[Jimbo]

Agree 100%. To my mind Tenkara is simply fly fishing technique, as is french nymping and other leader-only methods. Am waiting for my first 12' Iwana rod to give the system a shot. We had so little snow this past winter that our streams are already as skinny as they normally are in late summer! I'm having all sorts of presentation issues and am already working drys on long leaders and 1' of fly line because the pools are so small and flat ant the fish are so spooky. For me the predatory process begins with presentation ..... how the artificial will appear to the fish and how he will react .... and everything works back from there. Fly selection, drift assessment, stalking .... and finally casting .... are all in service of this singular requirement.

I'm not at all sure that I might not prefer a reel option (i.e. a dedicated, ultralight, ultra-long, multi-segment, euro-nymphing style rod, that broke broke down a reasonable size) both to play the occasional large fish at drop offs (where chasing after them is not an option), but more importantly to facilitate easy leader-length adjustment (by adding or taking in a few feet of line for casting, and especially for feeding into slow down-stream drifts) ....... but I sure don't feel like paying for that rig! Sitting here getting ready to head out, Tenkara is really just looking like an affordable, portable option for offering up a presentation that I believe at least some of my fish may prefer.

[heathcote]

I fish both tenkara and modern western style, tenkara is what Izaak Walton fished in the Complete Angler when he attached a fly to his furled horse hair line. He also fished bait under a float on the same rod. I fish bait under my tenkara rod. All are ways of decieving fish from a great diversity of waters, all is fishing and that as Izaak said is the comtemplative mans recreation. Long may it continue.

[Ernest]

A fly shop about four towns over now has some tenkara rods, lines, and flies in stock. I'm impressed by the rods, but I haven't decided to buy one. My question is this: How do you handle a large fish on one of these rods?

In the Midwest many of us fish happily for 8-12 inch trout. But there are bigger fish in many of the streams. Every day I have at least one chance at a 18"+ trout. I use 5x and 6x tippets (and once in a while 7x) to match the sizes of flies we use, and I have landed many 18-23" inch browns on 6x. Those fish usually run around the pool and up and down the stream before tiring, and I play them off the reel, sometimes on a pretty long line. Most of our small steam fishing is jungle fishing, with trees and brush over the water. Most of my trout rods are between 6 and 7 feet, for 3, 4 and 5 wt lines.

There are some open pasture streams where a tenkara rod might work just fine. I don't fish those pastures very often. I have found a meadow stream that no one else is fishing, and in a few weeks will be overhung with long grass. The "meadow" is a quaking bog really; every step has to be carefully weighed, and runnig up and down the bank with a fish is not an option. I've caught a few 15" browns there this spring, but there are bigger ones. The long rod will help, I think, with a presentation over the grass, but do I have a chance to land a 20" fish on a long rod, a short line, and 5x tippet?

Before I buy one, I just want to know if I have a chance to land a nice fish without being able to chase it around the next bend. Any help you can offer will be appreciated.

[adam]

There is a little bit more to it than any tenkara rod handling a big fish. You want to match the rod to the fish size. If you are going to be catching fish of size 16" or larger with frequency, you want a tenkara rod that is going to handle it. Even "heavy" tenkara rods, you still have relatively light tippets, 5x is the heaviest that I use. For big fish in a small stream, I use the TenkaraUSA "Ito" and I've caught many fish larger than 16" with it. I use a longer line with it and you will have to chase the fish a little, not much if you know how to pressure the fish and not let up, tiring it fast. Fish fighting is subjective, the last thing I want to do is talk about a fish fight. I can pressure a fish with a zero weight more than a 6-weight because I can feel the tippet "breaking strength" better with a lighter giving rod (to a degree) With a tenkara rod, this is even more pronounced as it is like a 0000-weight rod. Tell me rods that are available 4 towns over and I will advise you to which one I would choose or you can order one online or what ever. It is fun.

[Ernest]

Thanks for the tips. I'm camping/fishing in SE Minnesota with a bunch of older (than me even) rich guys this weekend, and then traveling next weekend, and I won't get to that shop for at least several weeks. The shop doesn't sell stuff online, so I don't know for sure what they have. I saw the tenkara rods at their booth at a fly fishing show. Maybe when I get there I can get some advice.

There are guys in the Midwest that have used tenkara equipment, and the reviews are mixed at best. I see this as a specialized tactic for a few places only. Most of our jungle fishing won't allow for a long rod. In my quaking bog meadow, there's no chasing the fish up and down the stream. One misstep and you're waist deep or deeper in the muskeg. I have to strike the fish and land him without moving.

Well, we'll see how it goes.

[adam]

Hmm, that might be a tough way to learn it but I'm pretty sure that you would take to it pretty quickly.

I've taught (more like oriented) many fly fishers to use a tenkara rod effectively.

The common mistake is overpowering the cast...

For small streams of all kinds, even steep gradient plunge pool, bucket to bucket tunnel streams, I've learned to use tenkara effectively. I use a shorter stiffer rod and shorten up the heavier than normal tapered line.

I'm three years into it now, not fly fishing small streams since then.

At one point, I chose to use just one type of fly pattern, nothing else, my catch rate did not drop, if anything, I caught more fish.

I've had a handful of 100 fish days in three years where that was not so common with a fly rod, close but not the same. Also, more first cast days.


It isn't me, it is the combination of my experience and a rod that allows extreme control over the fly.


Tea cup precision, like in between blades of grass, tucked up sideways under a grassy overhang or a skitter hop hop of the fly with no line on the water at distance.


The rods allow a good measure more of control.


I use long tenkara rods, the length being a positive attribute.


Have not felt the need to fish my favorite fly rods in graphite or bamboo rods that I have made that are absolutely beautiful.


For me, it is all that and a bag of chips.

http://www.tenkarausa.com/product_info.php/products_id/125 That rod will handle the fish you describe and is still fun to catch typical small stream trout.

http://www.tenkarausa.com/product_info.php/products_id/85 That one will do the same thing and is a little bit cheaper and probably better to start with.

http://www.tenkarausa.com/product_info.php/products_id/85 This is the rod I started with but it is far too heavy for me now that I have experience with many premium Japanese tenkara rods.

I like the good stuff, Sakura, Nissin and Shimano. I understand that Daiwa makes a clean rod too. There are many others.

I have sold many rods to my maker friends and other small stream fly anglers picking up tenkara but the rods I sell are expensive in comparison to the rods above and are probably a better second rod once you know that you like tenkara. The premium stuff is really light, strong and precise as well as gorgeous in comparison: http://tenkara.phpwebhosting.com/tkf_vb/content.php?183-Nissin-Airstage or http://tenkara.phpwebhosting.com/tkf_vb/content.php?172-NISSIN-Fuji-Flow-3-65m-Sakura-Seki-Rei-3-3m-(Part-1)

Imagine being able to cast your fly 20' away and suspend the fly on the surface of the water, no line on the water while it drifts... The tippet being 5 or 6x a meter long and the rest of the line like 12lb test. STEALTHY No line slap, even gin clear, still, thin water, you won't spook them.

It works for me.

Lots of choices, try using one of your friends rods first.

[Ernest]

It occurs to me now that a friend who is a professional trout fishing guide and fly fishing teacher and writer works out of the fly shop with the tenkara rods. So I will ask him for help with my questions for tenkara in the Midwest. Maybe I'll offer to show him my bog stream if he'll bring a long rod with him. That would be fun.

[adam]

That would be the best bet. If he uses a braided taper, ask him if he will rig up a level line.

[Dusty]

Unlike some of the fanboys, I don't see the conflict. I am just starting tenkara (and I like it so far). I will take Dr. Sugimoto's advice and (mostly) only fish tenkara this season. But I have already found places where my 6' 8" 2wt would work better than a 12' tenkara rod (I must confess I have a 9' "tenago" rod coming in the mail). I will also go to the Caribbean next month and take my Orvis 9wt. Tenkara grew as a small stream technology, and I love it for that, but it can certainly be another tool in the toolbox, not to the exclusion of others.

[adam]

Who is Dr. Sugimoto?

Just curious.

Tenkara is fixed line mountain stream fly fishing.

I have used a crescent wrench as a hammer but it works nicely as a wrench.

That's the way I see it.

Nice to see that you enjoy other types of fly fishing. I have a Sage LL 356 that is sometimes too long but I make do with a short line on a tenkara rod for tight quarters.

[Alpinefly]

There is a fantastic article in the recent Flyfisherman Magazine "Lessons From the Tenkara". Also a book on Tenkara by Kevin C. Kelleher MD and Misako Ishimura (a good friend of mine and on Team Japan Fly Fishing Team) is great reading and chocked full of valuable information for all levals of Tenkara Fishermen (and women). I have added Tenkara to my many techniques of Fly Fishing. I enjoy it for the simplistic Zin approach as well as the Historical side. Zin would say in the art of Fly Fishing, "The more you know, the less you need". I approached this originally from the interest of Fly Tying (In Japan it is considered one of the Zin Arts); and how the Masters approached tying Fly Patterns for fishing (very efficient). My friend Misako wanted me to read a book that she had co-authored and write a review. Currently, I have been testing Furled Lines manufactured for Tenkara (though I must say, I still like the Furled Lines made out of Horse Hair). It is a return back to the ancient as well as how 17th century Izaak Walton fished. In music, I like the Early music as well as modern (I am a music teacher and musician that has taught and performed all kinds). As a Fly Tyer and Designer, I tie all kinds of Flies (the Atlantic Salmon Fly & Scottish Dee is still hard to master). In hunting, I use Modern Cam Bows with release and Sites, Recurve and Long Bow without sites. Modern Firearms, and Early Black Powder. I like camping both primitive, and modern. It is all fun, and fun to learn and be educated in so many ways. Tenkara has really helped me be a better more in-tune Fly Fisherman and Fly Tyer.

[Ernest]

To follow my earlier posts, I’ve read about Tenkara as a mountain stream fishing method. Some of the blogs and message boards rave about the method, and others write about Tenkara as something for specialized applications.

Last week I fished for three days in the Midwest’s Driftless Region with several friends. The streams are small with lots of trout, and in the pastures and some lightly wooded areas it seems that Tenkara would be just the thing. I fished several open fast runs where line control was important, and a longer rod might have been better than the seven footer I was using. Likewise on flats where the fish were holding in narrow runs between weed banks. One gentle run into a pool could be fished from the lawn of a campground. The fish needed presentations within narrow feeding lanes, and a Tenkara rod might have been good. Trouble is, because of the ease of fishing this spot there is someone standing on the lawn with a rod most of every day, and the fish are educated. Meanwhile, just below the bridge is a nice pool with the tail in a brushy tunnel and the body of the pool overhung with a huge willow. I was surprised to see how far the willow branches had drooped toward the water since I was there three years ago. The only thing that worked was short roll casts to keep the fly out of the tunnel bushes, and sidearm, almost underhand casts to put the fly up under a willow branch that hung within two feet of the water’s surface. In the hour that my buddy struggled to catch two educated fish from the lawn, I caught more than a dozen not too experienced fish from under the trees.

I’m still looking for ways to incorporate Tenkara in my fishing. Where I fish most, it looks like a minor tactic at best.

Alpinefly, we have a red horse and a black horse with long tails. The idea of a furled line is interesting. I have made a few braided tapered leaders. Do you need a lot of tail hair?

[Alpinefly]

Alpinefly, we have a red horse and a black horse with long tails. The idea of a furled line is interesting. I have made a few braided tapered leaders. Do you need a lot of tail hair?


That certainly would be nice of you. Furled lines made from Horse Tail is much better and presents much better then Furled lines made from Mono. BTW, horse tail is great for Fly bodies. One of my patterns is the Horse's Ass PMD.

[adam]

A tenkara rod shines with a good level line. Braided lines are heavy in comparison and it is difficult to drape the line properly. A level line allows the fly to be presented at distance with the line suspended. That is the allure of a tenkara rod's control over the fly.

[Ernest]

I watched Adam’s video. Beautiful country and beautiful fish. I can see how the Tenkara methods works great under those fishing conditions. I’m still looking for an application here in the Midwest. Our fishing conditions are very different.

It’s interesting too to see how Adam dresses for the conditions. The sun shines here in the Upper Midwest, but we’re lower in elevation and the sun’s rays travel to us at a steeper angle, through more of the atmosphere. I don’t know anyone who uses the summer gloves, or the scarf to protect the neck and ears. Also, the banks of our small streams are high with vegetation now, waist high weeds and ferns, and stinging nettles and poison ivy. The vegetation covers down trees, stumps and rocks. We don’t have a problem with a good pair of shoes, but we’d never get by fishing in sandals.

[adam]

I dress for the sun and the heat. Even at elevation, it gets hot and I'm a bit of a hippy surfer, love my sandals. I backpack in them. I don't react to poison ivy but I avoid it.

Tenkara works just as well for larger streams.

I use the longest rod I can, sometimes a 4.1m rod is too short, sometimes a 9' rod is too long. The length is a tool.

I always try one perfect cast the first time with the right fly. I think everyone trys this too but I really work hard on it. Last three times fishing (even in different state) I catch on the first cast.

[Brooktrout]

yep, taught by a great american master.

[adam]

brooks? Who you been fishing tenkara with? I want to meet the master (baiter)

Many that fish tenkara are learning to fish. It is a much easier method to learn fly fishing but it is limiting. Take someone like myself that knows the dynamics and it is limiting as well, limiting as in forcing motion conservation, maximizing ergonomics. Not much to do except placing the fly exactly where you want it. Know the fly, know where the fish are, you can harass every single fish in the stream. Stealthy, you can't get a better presentation, I feel like a marionette, completely dancing the fly. There are times where I can get the fly to hop up off the water's surface one inch up and down, up and down, pecking the surface in a staccato twenty feet away, watching a fish race across a pool to nab it, you start to get used to that feeling. Big trout, the rod is a effective lever, the length can place pressure on a large fish and land them very quickly with light tippet.

I don't pay attention to whether people like it or me. I do what I do and I am willing to share what I know and continue to do. THAT sharing is what has brought us together then and now.


To follow my earlier posts, I’ve read about Tenkara as a mountain stream fishing method. Some of the blogs and message boards rave about the method, and others write about Tenkara as something for specialized applications.

[adam]

I am pointing more Japanese friends and tenkara enthusiasts to this site. I do believe we can co-exsist nicely if we do not fall into the trap of this vs. that.

This site has always been about fishing small streams. Spin fishers are welcome here and they always have been if they practice and preach good fishing ethics.


The new tenkara fisher people for the most part have learned fishing with tenkara. They think they are experts at fly fishing and often they write from that stance. Their knowledge of the stream and fishing is full of holes, they are after instant credibility.

I have no time for that.

There are some tenkara teachers that will have you selling your fly fishing gear because tenkara is better...

I have not time for that either.

Tenkara is a great way to fish a small stream but it is only one way.

So please help me as we move forward to helping those that enjoy this site that are tenkara enthusiasts to feel welcome.

[Alpinefly]

I believe the Tenkara section to be a great addition to smallstreams. I have added this technique to my arsenal of styles, and have found it very useful when it comes to wilderness Fly Fishing. I agree with you Adam, as I have no time with sites that are using Tenkara to sell their products or as an argument.
I have learned much from the Tenkara Techniques (both fishing and tying) as well as from great friends like Misako Ishimura.

[Anthony]

Tenkara is a way to fly fish - I came to it after years of western fly fishing for many reasons. Is it better? Right now for me - the answer is yes. But that's a question and answer that is personal to everyone. I find myself reaching for the tenkara rod almost exclusively for my fishing. Perhaps it is "fixed-line fly fishing" that I do, and not always "tenkara" (I like weighted nymphs). I consider myself a fly fisher first and foremost - all the gear is just a away to deliver a fly and land a fish after all.
I happen to be enjoying the tenkara gear now. In my tenkara fishing I am employing most of what I learned as a western fly fisher - it's not an "either/or" thing. It's all fly fishing (except maybe to the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission - but that's another story).

Small streams and tenkara are the perfect match, so smallstreams.com and tenkara ought to go along nicely.

[adam]

@Alpinefly, your friend is a part of the propoganda machine as far as I am concerned. That's about as kind as I can put it. Remember, I always have a reason and will prove anything I write or say. I won't write anything more on this subject because I think she is a nice person that is being directed by someone else. Let it go.

@Anthony, Gus and I discused this already. We had a forum for tenkara at smallstreams.com and it was moving but Gus and I decided to present the site as it ever was, small streams. Tenkara is just another way to fish, just like spin fishing and I wanted to keep the smallstream site pure. So if you fish Tenkara only, just like I do, participate here and write your stories and do what you do and integrate yourself into the site. smallstreams.com is not just a "fly fishing with a reel" site. It is much more than that and always has been. Just do what you do, don't worry about "Tenkara" or HYPE or anything. It's fishing and every single one of us can smell it if it isn't write. If you cook up a good meal, yummy for all of us. smallstreams.com is a really cool site based on a successful forumula.

[Zanko]

If you want to fish western style or Tenkara does it really matter as long as you are having a good time?

I actually like to fish both for the fact it's a good mix up on fly fishing trips.

Maybe I will buy a Tenkara rod one day, or maybe I will just steal Adam's "Green Hornet", "shrug".

Fish your style and have fun...

[adam]

Zanko is another reel angler that has been taught the way of Japanese fly fishing on a Sakura Seki Rei. I teach my best angling friends on this authentic equipment so that the Japanese master that designed the rod passes the lesson to them. I am simply the owner of the rod. He used my Seki Rei to catch its largest trout, a queen of 17"

S.Brooks is another.

There are more introductions with that rod.

Many more fine anglers have learned the way with that rod.

If you are an attuned Western fly angler, I suggest authentic equipment.

[adam]

@Anthony, my research into the history of tenkara from Soseki Yamamoto books has the definition much more broad than what has been presented to us in the media. Less of "pure tenkara" and more of "pure fishing" Remember, it was a form of commercial fishing, it was made into a package and presented to us by an American to sell rods. If you must let others define what you consider Tenkara is, don't. Research it for yourself . It just keeps getting better and better the more you look for definitions.


The more you know, the less you need.

Thats about the best American quote I have read.

[Alpinefly]

??? Sounds like a lot of people are being directed by someone else. Nuff said !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!