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View Full Version : Plastic, really?



rayfound
03-01-2010, 06:37 PM
I am always bothered by the, seemingly increasing, use of the term "Plastic" rods.

I am bothered, #1 because it imparts a connotation (I feel intentionally), that denotes the Graphite/fiberglass rods as cheap, commodity-type products, and completely ignores the cost of R&D, tooling, etc... that goes into the manufacture of the blanks. I'm not arguing here that Glass/Graphite rods are better or worse than Bamboo/Wood, but I think its a bit unfair.

#2, I am bothered because its misleading. Fiberglass and graphite are not plastic, and while, in the strictest sense of the word, a polyester resin, could be considered plastic, this is a distinct material from plastics, as they are commonly known.


I just don't understand the reasoning behind why the term is used. seems like the only purpose is for implying an inferiority vs more "traditional" or "craftsman" style rods.

Am I missing something here?... Or is this just subtle elitism?

mikeytwoshoes
03-01-2010, 07:04 PM
no. yer right.

palewatery
03-01-2010, 08:03 PM
I tend to agree with you and hinted at the same thing in the Matrix poll.
Folk can use whatever terms they like and I don't judge anybody on it.. but yeah! It does kinda bug me a little.

wrknapp
03-01-2010, 09:09 PM
"Carbon" and "glass" or "carbon fiber" and "glass fiber" rods sound better but I have never felt demeaned by any description. You could call them all poles including grass/bamboo/cane poles as far as I'm concerned. End the end, they're just tools we use to get a "wiggle."

Randy

Danny S
03-02-2010, 04:11 AM
I think the term "plastic" may have been a way for those dedicated to bamboo only to describe all rods made from man-made material. I fish both graphite and bamboo, depending on which I feel like using.

Could it be subtle elitism? I don't think it always is now--but likely originated that way. Not much different than some fly fishers using certain terms to refer to non-fly fishers or others' reference to "Orvis Hatches." Not sure why anyone should care about equipment used, or what label is on waders, boots, rods, etc.

mikeytwoshoes
03-02-2010, 09:05 AM
You could call them all poles including grass/bamboo/cane poles as far as I'm concerned.



you are absolutely right. they are all fishing poles when you get right down to it.

erics beetle
03-02-2010, 09:39 AM
People can be incredibly touchy about such things , and I do agree saying something is plasticy definately has a conotation that its crap.. I fish carbon rods now I think they are wonderful I am old enough to remember cane , greenheart and fibreglass and remember the blisters,

However calling a rod a pole or whatever is fine by me. As long as people enjoy their fishing and dont impact on others its fine.

There are benefits to be had from this type of thing though some years ago my fellow directors were desperate for me to become a golfer much against my will , but to the extent they bought me clubs and lessons however after arriving at their clubhouse with my new clubs complete with my new walt disney club head covers ,I beleive the 3 wood cover was a bright yellow daffy duck which I thought very colourful. and by referring to my clubs as bats ( they really hated that) and generally been as loud as possible around the greens I found that golf invites became a thing of the past. I think on hindsight if I had referred to their club shafts as been plastic I think they would have buried me in a bunker...

Ernest
03-02-2010, 10:57 AM
I am guilty of using the word “plastic” from time to time to describe certain rods. Maybe I shouldn’t. I own a half dozen of them, and they perform for me as advertised.

I remember early graphite marketers calling bamboo and fiberglass rods all sorts of disparaging old fashioned names, and maybe “plastic” is a response. It’s like when two of your kids are fighting, and you step in and ask what’s happened, and one says “He hit me back first!”

It’s been noted elsewhere that graphite, glass, and bamboo may all be made into fine rods, and it all depends on what you do with the material. I like that.

I grew up very poor. I learned to value what people could do for themselves, rather than buy new all the time. I value a serviceable homemade rod, or one made from scratch by a friend over a flashy high end, high dollar rod. It’s easier to make a rod blank yourself out of the “old fashioned” materials than from graphite. As long as the homemade rod can make the casts (some can, and some can’t), I’ll value that over manufactured “plastic (there I go again)” rods.

troutrageous1
03-02-2010, 12:25 PM
I don't mind people referring to my rods as plastic...I mean afterall this IS what I fish with:
http://zebco.com/images/SBflatboard.jpg

Kidding aside, the term "plastic" probably does ignore or cheapen the technology in many of these rods. Are they painstakingly labored upon for days (if not months) by hand like a bamboo counterpart? No...but there's still a human element involved in the extensive R&D that goes into the creation of a good "plastic" rod.

As an owner of all flavors of graphite rods, the use of "plastic" doesn't personally bother me...it's just another example of how it seems fly fishermen tend to be a more insular and exclusionary group than most, even amongst themselves. That's actually why I like this forum, it generally does a better than most job of cutting BS like that out of the equation. If somebody says "plastic" on smallstreams I perceive it more as an simple adjective rather than a slur. I haven't been here long, but have noticed this tends to be a supportive & inclusive community.

Zac Sexton
03-02-2010, 01:22 PM
As an owner of all flavors of graphite rods, the use of "plastic" doesn't personally bother me...it's just another example of how it seems fly fishermen tend to be a more insular and exclusionary group than most, even amongst themselves.

Well said! But, I have to admit, that I kinda like the name-calling and exclusionary tactics of we, the elitist fly-chuckers. :bigthumb: Mostly, because I think it's funny. And I think it's funny, b/c I'm a bit of an elitist, but only because I think the way I FISH, is the best FOR ME. I don't really care what others do, but if you find yourself on a stream with me, and happen to have a "plastic" rod, I'll say something smart-ass about it--then laugh. And I'll especially say something if I AM FISHING A PLASTIC ROD!!! :eh: Everyone has thier "THING" that they love about fly fishing. So why not make fun of them for it? ;)

A very good friend of mine used to guide on the Snake. And having guided on the Snake, she gets to run in to all sorts of "snits" from the Jackson Hole elitists. She loves to call fly-rods, "poles," then explain to clients you have to be very quiet to catch fish, then scream "HERE FISHY FISHY FISHY!!!" The reactions she's gotten are pretty damn funny.

If it hasn't been done, there really needs to be an anthropological study done on how people fish, and what type of personality they have. It may be the case, that the 7'6" Powell-rod-toting, dry-fly purist, scotch-drinking-pipe-smoker, has a slightly different take on life than the Eagle Claw (fly) rod-chucking, San Juan Worm-drowning, Hams Beer-drinking, funny-cigarette-smoker. It'd be interesting to fish with 'em both. And I have!

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww139/zwaterwriter/Sweetgrass_WSC_NFKBlkft.jpg
Sometimes they come with graphite...

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww139/zwaterwriter/MadisonCuttbow1.jpg
And sometimes they come with cane...

JB in SC
03-02-2010, 03:10 PM
I haven't owned a bamboo rod in years, I'm too clumsy to fish one.

Makes not one iota of difference to me whether they are called plastic, synthetic, carbon fiber (or fibre) with a splash of resin, Fiberglas™, or composite.

troutrageous1
03-02-2010, 03:25 PM
Well said! But, I have to admit, that I kinda like the name-calling and exclusionary tactics of we, the elitist fly-chuckers. :bigthumb: Mostly, because I think it's funny. And I think it's funny, b/c I'm a bit of an elitist, but only because I think the way I FISH, is the best FOR ME. I don't really care what others do, but if you find yourself on a stream with me, and happen to have a "plastic" rod, I'll say something smart-ass about it--then laugh. And I'll especially say something if I AM FISHING A PLASTIC ROD!!! :eh: Everyone has thier "THING" that they love about fly fishing. So why not make fun of them for it? ;)
And in your scenario, I'm 100% in agreement. Playful ribbing between friends is one thing; in fact it's a great thing - basically one of the tenets of "man code."

adam
03-02-2010, 06:45 PM
I fish both plastic and bamboo rods.

My tenkara rods are plastic and really some of my favorites...

There are a lot of things I do or say in life that don't make a lot of sense, I do think it is a bit misleading to some, I'm ok with that.


Plastic rods taught me how to fish and respect bamboo.


Plastic plastic plastic, it doesn't sound bad to me.


For me it's a term.



I'm me, I don't think I am better than you, I'm just me.

I fish both plastic and bamboo.

Theo
03-04-2010, 05:44 AM
If it hasn't been done, there really needs to be an anthropological study done on how people fish, and what type of personality they have. It may be the case, that the 7'6" Powell-rod-toting, dry-fly purist, scotch-drinking-pipe-smoker, has a slightly different take on life than the Eagle Claw (fly) rod-chucking, San Juan Worm-drowning, Hams Beer-drinking, funny-cigarette-smoker. It'd be interesting to fish with 'em both. And I have!

It has! Well, kinda...

http://tiny.cc/DeepTrout

;)

Theo

jeepster
03-04-2010, 07:30 AM
Plastic is an inaccurate and derogatory term. http://users.dakotacom.net/~jeepster/tipshades.gif

adam
03-04-2010, 09:50 AM
Plastic is an inaccurate and derogatory term. http://users.dakotacom.net/~jeepster/tipshades.gif

Jeepster said it best.

foulhooked
03-04-2010, 01:52 PM
i find its use shallow and pedantic...

Zac Sexton
03-04-2010, 03:02 PM
Theo: Thanks for the recommendation of the book--I just ordered it! Now I can see what anglers are like that use plastic rods :twisted:

adam
03-04-2010, 07:44 PM
i find its use shallow and pedantic...

Hmm, foulhooked on plastic rods...


Theo: Thanks for the recommendation of the book--I just ordered it! Now I can see what anglers are like that use plastic rods :twisted:

Zac, I'm thinking about buying it too.

Let me know eh?

adam
03-05-2010, 09:21 AM
I found a copy, shipped to me for $6.

Looks like a interesting angle on our topic.


I just bought a plastic tenkara rod for myself and I am about to finish making a bamboo rod for a friend.



The guys that I admire (from afar) all use the term "plastic" for plastic rods. They use the term like many of you describe it here, I'm ok with that too.

Plastic rods are not a bad choice in my view, especially those that collapse.

One of my favorite plastic rods of all time is a Sage LL389-3, Jeepster hates his...

Anyway, here is my latest plastic rod.

http://www.tenkara-fisher.com/Rods/Sakura/Seki_Rei/images/2969161_o1.jpg http://www.tenkara-fisher.com/Rods/Sakura/Seki_Rei/images/2969161_o2.jpg http://www.tenkara-fisher.com/Rods/Sakura/Seki_Rei/images/2969161_o3.jpg

? Length: 3.3m (10.82') ? ? collapsed size of 58.5cm (23.11") 7 sections
Weight 65g (2.29oz) ? ? Tip diameter 0.8mm / butt diameter 10.5mm
? (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://matsudaya.jp/%3Fpid%3D2969161&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhi_DFWBHrFO54Ri4pFig0xXV6BxKA) Carbon 79.6% ~ Glass 20.4%

http://www.tenkara-fisher.com/Rods/Sakura/Seki_Rei/images/sekirei.jpg

http://www.tenkara-fisher.com/Rods/Sakura/Seki_Rei/images/sekireiup.jpg

jeepster
03-05-2010, 11:43 AM
Yep I hate that plastic LL389. And yes it is plastic among friends. This thread should move on to tupperware now. http://users.dakotacom.net/~jeepster/tipshades.gif

mikeytwoshoes
03-05-2010, 04:59 PM
about time someone mentioned tupperware.
and I'm glad it wasn't me.

friday night is fried chicken night here. jalapeno cornbread is in the oven. I'll bring some of that (chicken and cornbread) up for next weekend buddy.

sorry for the hijack.

I've a generous handful of plastic rods that I love dearly. just don't fish them often.

Nycflyangler
01-22-2012, 01:19 PM
Calling them plastic isn't subtle elitism, it's blatant elitism. If we're going to be elitist, we should be elitist about fly fishing. Then go out, string up the peasants and beat them to death for daring to poach our trout with bait using their own ugly stik spin casting rods. ;-)

Calling them fiberglass or carbon fiber or composite collectively is better and more accurate.

One thing I've never gotten is why carbon fiber rods got tagged with the graphite moniker. Graphite besides being a dry lubricant, is actually the highest grade of coal, just above anthracite. Does anyone really want to fish a coal rod?

Nycflyangler
01-22-2012, 02:16 PM
But they always come with a rocket propelled grenade. Fire in the hole!


http://youtu.be/k3XZ4qoKGw0





http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww139/zwaterwriter/Sweetgrass_WSC_NFKBlkft.jpg
Sometimes they come with graphite...

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww139/zwaterwriter/MadisonCuttbow1.jpg
And sometimes they come with cane...

Doctor
01-25-2012, 03:13 PM
Me
I love rods , got far too many ,some will never get waved by me again ,some only get an outing every couple of years ,they go from 5 ft which is a wee crank handle baitcaster in fibre glass via a slightly longer cane wee stream through lots of 7.9-9ft carbon in river rods ,with a Pezon Mitcelle in the mix there ,up in size there are 3 plastic 11.3 rods for drifting boat techniques + my new pre used Sage 11.3 #6 RPL ,and the come the big salmon guns all in Carbon or graphite as you will ,these range from 12.6 Hardy thru my other cheap sage at 14 foot up to the beast at 16foot via a 13 and an elderly Loomis 15 footer .
There are also glass rods for float fishing and casting for bass of the beach ,some other old but occaisonal use glass river rods of dubious parentage .
Oh and there is an 8ft Orvis Boron #5 ,great for chucking big dry flys .
All of those rods are cherished and most bring back happy memories .
Some even have moved from being rods to part of my balcony garden irrigation system