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adam
12-17-2009, 07:12 AM
I'm curious about what sort of rod type you fish so I'm making a pole...

If you fish an alternative, please place a "reply" and let us know.

adam
12-17-2009, 07:17 AM
I primarily fish a bamboo fly rod of my own making on small streams. Sometimes I fish a graphite Tenkara rod.

For warm water ponds, I fish a bamboo cane pole and for coldwater lakes I fish a bamboo fly rod.

In the salt, I primarily fish a spinning and bait casting graphite rod and a graphite fly rod when I can.

For rivers, I fish a bamboo fly rod.

palewatery
12-17-2009, 09:19 AM
I selected Bamboo, used my Schliske 3wt the bulk of last season and that'll be the story from now on but still own and use a 4wt TXL when I need to travel with a smaller tube or just when the fancy takes me. Used the TXL or similar up until last season.
Bigger rivers and the very occasional foray on stillwaters or when fishing for Pike I use Graphite.
Salt, I don't do, maybe this coming year I will. If and when it'll be graphite.

Don't own anything other than fly rods, not a judgement just a personal choice for fun reasons.

greendrake
12-17-2009, 11:13 AM
bamboo,usually one that I have made myself.I have a half dozen nice fiberglass rods that may get fished 1 or 2 times a year.I have only ever owned 1 graphite rod in my life.It was built on an H.L. Leonard blank.It may see the light of day once a year.In fact I could count on one hand the number of different brands of graphite that I have so much as cast,on one hand.I just never got caught up in the craze and never found one that "did" it for me.
It's been bamboo almost exclusively since I was 16.

adam
12-17-2009, 04:46 PM
Don't own anything other than fly rods, not a judgement just a personal choice for fun reasons.

All good the way I see it.

I started out with a cane pole, moved to spin casting then spin fishing and fly fishing.

In the old days of smallstreams.com, we had a few of us who were spin fishers. They mostly lurked as they do now but some were active. They talked of using de-barbed single hooks. In some cases, a spin rod will out perform a fly rod, it's rare but there are situations. Without going off track...

I use a spin and cast in the salt when the fish are few and far between. I can cast 90 yards with my Calcutta and Terramar set up, that's about 270' of water covered in one cast. In that one cast, I can cover much efficient and stealthy than I can with a fly rod. When the fish are in, I'm fly rodding. That's the only situation where I fish other than fly and tenkara.

Bamboo and wood came before plastics. You can make a bamboo rod that will perform all as well as a plastic rod. Bamboo is beautiful, that's my choice, a bamboo fly rod that I've made or a friend has made...

Tenkara gets a telescoping graphite construction because you will be hard pressed to top the attributes of a carbon graphite telescoping tenkara rod, it is near perfection as is a bamboo rod but in a different way.

People who are passionate about fishing will find there way, quietly, to bamboo at some point.


I've seen this many many times.

palewatery
12-17-2009, 07:32 PM
In some cases, a spin rod will out perform a fly rod, it's rare but there are situations.

Same here, especially for Salmon. Winter Grayling fishing around here is very much like that too... not spinning as such but centrepin & float... same sort of thing deep down though, fly fishing being out performed. Someone with a long trotting rod, centrepin, a tub of maggots and a semi decent level of skill will outcatch me and a fly rod 10-1.
I just can't find the same level of enjoyment nowadays without a fly rod in my hand, I catch less in the winter because of that but I can live with it. Maybe if I broadened the species I fished for I'd find fun again in methods I've given up, I've no set boundaries so we'll see what the future brings.

adam
12-17-2009, 10:02 PM
Nice. I agree with your take and completely understand it.

Sean
12-19-2009, 01:54 AM
graphite


I have one use where i prefer boo over graphit and that is fishing 7x or lighter with midges/scuds to bigger trout and sightfishing

terry
12-19-2009, 09:00 AM
Graphite. I just can't justify the extra cost of bamboo.

adam
12-19-2009, 10:33 AM
A graphite rod is the most overpriced rod by far.

Why is a top end graphite spinning rod about $300 and a top end Sage nearly $700?

There is less than $100 in that rod.

A bamboo rod takes 30-50 hours to make, do the math on what ever price point you want to pay for a rod.

The bamboo rod can be made to be just as performance minded as any graphite and it is very beautiful in hand.

Just my opinion, I had yours at one point until I found a bamboo rod that I loved like my Sage zero weight.


Now I love them all.

Roy
12-19-2009, 10:34 AM
Bamboo, primarily - Schliske Slayer 7.5 ft and a 1piece 6.5 ft by Matt Davies on a Chapman blank. Threw out all my old Sharpes.

Some fibreglass 1piece 5ft, 2piece 7ft Hardy; both good rods, I'd fish these in heavy brush as they are disposable, so far proven unbreakable :)

Some graphite - Scott 6ft 3wt, also awesome and a Cabelas 8.5 ft 3wt for open banks

Need more rods
:mrgreen:

Ernest
12-19-2009, 11:09 AM
Terry,

Bamboo doesn't have to be expensive. I buy used. I currently have 12 bamboo rods. I added up the prices I paid, and it was under $900 for the whole dozen. Three of them are as they came from commercial rod shops. Another one needed refinishing to make it usable, and I did that myself. One was given to me by the rod maker. The rest were made by local hobbyists, and I have remodeled and/or refinished them to my liking. Some of them are really pretty and fish very well, and some are just good, solid fishing tools. I only have 12 because all those I haven't liked, I've discarded. It doesn't take a lot of money to get into bamboo, but it does take some time, some looking around, and some letting people know you're interested. I don't look for rods much anymore, but now people call me and offer me rods at good prices.

I am the Luddite who responded to the poll saying that I fish small streams mostly with wood rods. I make them myself. That's not pertinent here, except that it says that I am not afraid to take on a distressed rod and play with it to make it work for me. Some of my cheaper bamboo rods were junk until I invested a couple of hours to fix them up. I have never made a bamboo rod from a culm, and with people giving me rods cheap or free, I probably never will. I have great respect for people who make a nice rod from scratch. It takes some learning to make a nice bamboo rod.

Adam is right. At retail prices, the graphite rod is the most expensive rod you can own.

terry
12-20-2009, 08:56 AM
Thanks for the info.

I can see were a bamboo is a better rod for the money, but I am looking at my $200 and under price limit. Can a bamboo be found at that price?

adam
12-20-2009, 10:50 AM
Odd as it may seem, it sounds as if I were in the same shoes as you were. I didn't want to spend more than $250. I bought a South Bend 7' 5-weight that had a crisp action that I enjoyed but the ferrule "ticked" and as far as I'm concerned, when a rod "makes noise" while casting, besides wind stroke and line moving through guides, it is broke. The guy who I was working with was the local bamboo guru who loved fishing bamboo for bass. He semi restored rods but sucked at it and it set me way back with bamboo. I knew I was going to have to get a new one.

At one point, I was on Team Loop in America and had access to just about any graphite rod I wanted at reduced prices and or trade out for advertising at smallstreams.com

I was approached by a bamboo rod maker. Smallstreams.com was young and HUGE. The guy was reading about my stuggle with my South Bend or something and just gave me a bamboo rod, one exactly like I wanted. I told him that I liked as short of rod as possible but I still liked a little length and stealthy so he made me a rod, a blond (I enjoy blond rods) 7' 3-weight. I was not going to fail this so I looked into advertising for a shop and traded out a Thebault Silk Line for it and slapped a Ross San Miguel for line winding.

The rod sung to me each time I would go fishing.

The rod cast itself.

The loop was effortless and watching the cast loop send seemed to make time stand still.

Done deal, hooked, love it.

I pulled the ferrule off on a cold morning, shit. I had another tip but it hurt me. I sent the rod back and on another trip, pulled another ferrule off. No way, same bad feeling about bamboo again. A friend who also got a rod from this guy, two ferrules pulled off, he lives here too. Bad glue technique but I'm back in graphite land again, bamboo being archaic and I'm not going there ever again (personally)

The anglers I enjoyed reading love bamboo and always had praise for it. I started asking people about ferrule maintenance and such. Bad glue/technique all came to tell me. I ran more bamboo contest and still admired bamboo, albeit with pursed lips and not really knowing what it was about bamboo.

I meet up with a guy who rolled graphite rods himself. I love his work and had a pretty big bundle of small stream rods through a 10-weight I had made for the salt and he invited me to come to the shop. My son and I stood there and watched him and help roll a prototype 1-weight rod that he and I were going to work on for small streams. I loved that rod very much, as much as ANY Sage or Thomas that I had cast and I had finished it out from a blank.

Graphite was winning by a margin.

This whole time I am growing older and more mature, getting a whole lot better at fly fishing having fished the mountains to the sea and back again. One year, I fly fished nothing but salt and much of that was with a ten-weight in a panga.

But when I was in the mountains, I remembered that little 7' 3-weight and the song it sang, how beautiful it was (when I could put it together) and that memory, even in light of the ferrule coming off was burned in.

I forgot how it came to light but we had a small stream meet (just a few guys) scheduled, a couple of the guys who wanted to meet were Mike Shay and Matt Shliske. We meet at a little stream under the rim here in Arizona, it was cold (the gallon of water froze hard outside of my tent, I was the only one camping overnight) and I think Eli and I got skunked, maybe everyone else did too, can't remember but Matt didn't. He snapped images (we all did) and had caught fish. We cast a few rods from him and Mike Shay. We talked about ferrules and they agreed that it was bad/glue technique and that they don't pull off all the time however bamboo is not in the same construction as graphite and each has attributes that are not contained in each other...

I dropped the prejudice right there and was invited to Mike Shay's shop to see how bamboo rods were made.

Mike decided that I should be making my own rods and he and I made on in his shop together for me (which I love and fish all the time with no ferrule pulling off) and I went on to start my own rod shop.

I started visiting bamboo rod maker gatherings and to educate myself about bamboo. Meet as many makers as I could, started a web site geared towards bamboo rod makers and now I have this comparison for you.

100 graphite anglers - 100 bamboo anglers

The 100 bamboo (wood guys in this group) are the guys who love the mountains, know the outdoors, know the ins and outs of tying, know fishing. They are not caught up in the media frenzy for the latest and greatest. They are the ones I want to be a part of and learn from.

The 100 graphite guys are into FISHING! Focused on it but not the most knowing of the whole scene of fishing and the outdoors. Lower percentages of all around (tying, conservation, casting dynamics) general knowledge... Concerned more about names than performance.

Having the intimate knowledge of how much a bamboo rod cost to make and how much a graphite rod cost to make, breaking that all down, much of the cost of a graphite rod is overhead and advertising. I don't like how a graphite rod company presents fly fishing. Not my cup of tea, I don't like anything about it. Graphite rods do work but they are insanely overpriced and I will not buy another one at that price point.

...and I have had many many of them from the finest companies, Sage, Thomas and Thomas, Orvis and such. I have a fool biography at grassart of all the rods but it is private, hold on, I'll cut and paste.

I have cast hundreds of rods besides these below...

Composite Fly Rods Owned
0-weight: Sage SPL, SLT
1-weight: East Branch, Orvis Superfine, T&T PA, Steffen
2-weight: Sage LL, Orvis Superfine, Steffen
3-weight: Sage LL - SPL, Orvis Superfine, Steffen
4-weight: Lamiglass, Orvis Superfine - HLS, Steffen
5-weight: Orvis Clearwater - HLS, Steffen
6-weight: Orvis Clearwater, Steffen, T&T HS-S
7-weight: Steffen
8-weight: T&T HS-S, TFO TiCRX
9-weight: Orvis Clearwater
10-weight: Steffen, T&T HS-S
12-weight: T&T HS-S

European Two-Hand: Loop 12' 6" 7-weight

Composite Fly Rods Built
0-weight: Sage SPL - SLT
1-weight: East Branch x 4, Sage SPL, Steffen
2-weight: East Branch, Sage LL
3-weight: Steffen, Sage LL x 3
4-weight: Steffen x 2
5-weight: Steffen
6-weight: Steffen
7-weight: Steffen
10-weight: Steffen

Composite Fly Rods Fished (other than those owned or built)
0-weight: Sage
1-weight: East Branch, Orvis, Sage, T&T, Steffen, Blanton
2-weight: East Branch, Orvis, Sage, Winston
3-weight: Sage, Steffen, Orvis, Winston, Scott
4-weight: Sage, Steffen, Lamiglass, Winston, Loop
5-weight: Sage, Steffen, Orvis, Winston, Loop
6-weight: Sage, Steffen, Loop
7-weight: Sage, Steffen
8-weight: Sage, T&T, Steffen, Winston
10-weight: Sage, T&T, Steffen
12-weight: Sage

Fly Reels Owned
Pflueger: (various)
Orvis: Battenkill - 3/4 - 5/6 - 9/10, CFO I - I23
Hardy: Featherweight - Flyweight - Marquis - Marksman
Loop: Traditional - Midge - Dryfly 2, 2W, 3W, HiTec #1 - #3, CLW 8Twelve
Tibor: Freestone - Everglades - Riptide - Gulfstream
Ross: San Miguel #1 - #2
JW Young & Sons: Beaudex 3" - 3.25"
Fin Nor: #3 AR

Bamboo Fly Rods Owned
JW: 7' 3-weight
M.Shay: 7' 9" 3-weight
Gary Lacey: 7' 4-weight
South Bend: 5-weight, 8-weight
H-I: Tonka Queen
Montague Rapidan
Orvis "Shooting Star"

Silk Fly Lines Owned
Thebault: 2 - 3 - 4
Various: 3 - 4 - 5 - 8

I've built many graphite rods and I'll still build one for a friend, they work and they work well and I may own one in the future but it's bamboo rods for me, they are inexpensive compared to graphite.

Now I'll tell you, the last rod I bought was a graphite tenkara rod at about $130 bucks or so. I LOVE this rod because in it's configuration, it will be very difficult to make a bamboo rod that will do all the things it can do. It shines in that you can telescope it down and stuff it into a backpack. Along side that rod will be a specific little pack fly rod in bamboo that I have ordered from Steve Kiley. I'll be paying more for that rod than any Sage rod but it is damn worth it. There are a handful of guys I would buy rods from knowing I'm going to get a great deal and the rod will sing. I can even make that rod but I enjoy collecting a few rods from my friends, I take them along with me.

Graphite rod designers never did anything for me except overcharge me for a rod that they did not make...

I don't know you, this took about an hour to type but I think it's worth it because I enjoy your posts and can tell that you are talented and care about what you do.

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=87 (http://smallstreams.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=87)

I've looked at your posts, you seem to value your money, that's good. Invest in yourself and purchase a rod from an established maker. Ask around, see who other bamboo enthusiasts rods they like and enjoy.

I can offer you a few names as well.

Blah blah blah, yadda yadda I hope you enjoy the web site no matter what you fish.

Ernest
12-20-2009, 11:10 AM
$200 is plenty, in my neighborhood, not for a top of the line rod, but for a good fishing tool.

Sometimes you can find a fishable rod for that price. Sometimes it needs a little repair work. If you have the coordination to tie flies, you have the ability to fix up a rod. If the cane is sound, replacing the reel seat, grip, guides and finish are easy.

I have two 6 1/2', two piece, 1 tip rods for 3 and 4 wt lines, one quite fast and one a bit slower in action, that I made for almost nothing when I matched up parts of different broken rods that people were about to thow out. Before you pass final judgement on that kind of thing, you should fish these two rods. They both have excellent actions.

Sometimes it depends what you have to put into the deal. I wanted a print of a watercolor a local artist had for sale for $95. He wanted a small stream bamboo rod. I had matching bamboo parts lying around and fixed him up with a 6 1/2' 4 wt, 2 tip rod, with a grip, windings and finish to his order. Both of us had very little invested in the trade, I like the print a lot, and he loves the rod.

Another time I traded a couple of old fiberglass rods that I hadn't used in years for a nice little 5 wt bamboo.

You have to look around, ask around, and you'll find them.

terry
12-20-2009, 11:49 AM
Adam, thanks for the time you put into that last post, its greatly appreciated. You have opened my eyes to a few things.

To be honest with you, I have never put much thought into how much of a rod's price comes from advertising. Its more of a what is the best fishing tool I can afford on my budget thing. Right now an Orvis silverlabel 7' 5 weight is my favorite. I bought it used.

Ernest, thanks for your info too. I will be putting in some time trying to find a cheap boo now. Something bewtween 7 and 7-1/2 foot long, and 4 or 5 weight.

I will add more later, right now its off shopping with my family.

mikeytwoshoes
12-20-2009, 12:03 PM
terry - there are always reasonably priced vintage rods available on ebay, assuming you're willing to do restoration work on the rod. restoration is a lotta fun and very rewarding. most of these old rods are quite heavy. you'll be hard pressed to find a 7-7 1/2 ft rod in the reasonable price range.

anyways, keep yer eyes open here...

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=bamboo ... pg=&_sop=1 (http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=bamboo+fly+fishing+rod&_armrs=1&_from=R10&_ipg=&_sop=1)

terry
12-20-2009, 05:56 PM
I am kind of eye balling #79 on this page:

http://www.classicflyfisherman.com/PRE_OWNED_RODS.htm

greendrake
12-20-2009, 08:06 PM
Nice post Adam. I'm glad Shay got you straightened out as far as bamboo goes.Otherwise Grassart may not have come about and we'd be all the poorer if you hadn't started that site.Seriously!

Terry, The SB 290 is a good entry level bamboo rod.They are all listed as 5wts but some of them really work better with a 6wt.

palewatery
12-20-2009, 08:09 PM
A graphite rod is the most overpriced rod by far.




At retail prices, the graphite rod is the most expensive rod you can own.

With the greatest of respect I would have to disagree with both of you. It’s not so long ago, only a few years, since cheap graphite rods were downright nasty and the difference in quality from low end to high end was huge but those days are gone.
Brand new you can easily pick up a graphite rod that’s serviceable for $100 and one that’s really very good for under $300. Last year I cast a friend’s rod that was bought new for $60-70 and while it looked rough it cast beautifully. Top ends for pretty much all the big name brands are around $700, compare that like for like with Bamboo rods from the same big name makers, Thomas & Thomas Classic $2600.. Thomas & Thomas Individual $3450.. Orvis Standard $1395.. Orvis Special $3500.. Winstons for $2750 - $3000. Then there’s Tom Morgan Bamboo for $3850 and Graphite for $1400. Tea Stick Bamboo’s which I’ve never tried but have heard are not great start at $600 for ones machined in the far east and finish built in the US.
For new rods top names who make both types of rod have the average cost of the Bamboo’s at least twice the price of the top Graphite’s, the market sets the price for both of them.

Second hand is much the same story with the market determining the price only supply and demand come into it a bit more, but if you spend time looking you can pick up Graphite bargains just the same. High end rods change and get updated every couple of years so second hand ones are readily available and with the cheaper rods getting better every year decent second hand Graphite’s are getting better and cheaper too.

Whether Graphite is better than Bamboo or Bamboo is better than Graphite is a whole other subject. It’s also very very open to each individuals likes and dislikes.



The 100 bamboo (wood guys in this group) are the guys who love the mountains, know the outdoors, know the ins and outs of tying, know fishing. They are not caught up in the media frenzy for the latest and greatest. They are the ones I want to be a part of and learn from.

The 100 graphite guys are into FISHING! Focused on it but not the most knowing of the whole scene of fishing and the outdoors. Lower percentages of all around (tying, conservation, casting dynamics) general knowledge... Concerned more about names than performance.


Again, with respect, that’s a sweeping generalisation. That’s your experience/opinion and I respect that but it cannot be expanded across the whole fishing scene. At least not from a UK standpoint, maybe it's a cultural difference between the US and the UK???

My 2p.

adam
12-20-2009, 11:51 PM
A graphite rod is the most overpriced rod by far.




At retail prices, the graphite rod is the most expensive rod you can own.

Whether Graphite is better than Bamboo or Bamboo is better than Graphite is a whole other subject. It’s also very very open to each individuals likes and dislikes.



The 100 bamboo (wood guys in this group) are the guys who love the mountains, know the outdoors, know the ins and outs of tying, know fishing. They are not caught up in the media frenzy for the latest and greatest. They are the ones I want to be a part of and learn from.

The 100 graphite guys are into FISHING! Focused on it but not the most knowing of the whole scene of fishing and the outdoors. Lower percentages of all around (tying, conservation, casting dynamics) general knowledge... Concerned more about names than performance.


Again, with respect, that’s a sweeping generalisation. That’s your experience/opinion and I respect that but it cannot be expanded across the whole fishing scene. At least not from a UK standpoint, maybe it's a cultural difference between the US and the UK???

My 2p.

Step on a graphite rod and see what happens?

*snickering*

How many 50 year old graphite rods have you heard of taking a bend on a fish of a lifetime?

Wood and bamboo started it all and are very available for anyone to pick up and make.

I prefer someone's personal hand drawn art over computer generated art, no what I mean?

My rod comparison = new

My opinion = mine

Respectfully taken.

:D

Take care.

greendrake
12-21-2009, 05:21 AM
I can honestly say that if I didn't fish bamboo that it still wouldn't be graphite for me.It would be fiberglass.I own a 6 1/2' 4wt Russ Peak fiberglass rod that I would never get rid of.

Try buying one of those on ebay :lol: The last one I saw listed there went for almost $1800 :shock:

palewatery
12-21-2009, 07:20 AM
:D :D :D



Step on a graphite rod and see what happens?

*snickering*

How many 50 year old graphite rods have you heard of taking a bend on a fish of a lifetime?

Wood and bamboo started it all and are very available for anyone to pick up and make.

I prefer someone's personal hand drawn art over computer generated art, no what I mean?

My rod comparison = new

My opinion = mine


Chances are it'll break, which on a $600-700 rod means the pain of a trip to the post office to send it away for a free repair. Bamboo is strong but I've read on here about many being broken, if you have the tools and knowhow you can fix it yourself.... If you don't......

There are no 50 year old Graphite rods.

Agreed, but if (like me and many others) you dont have the tools/space/ability/inclination to make your own which is the cheapest/easiest to pick up with good quality/performance? Like most things it's not black and white it's shades of grey.

I'm an artist and work in both mediums, different sets of skills but to be good at the second you need to be good at the first. Good computer art is drawn just the same only with a stylus rather than pencil or brush. I love and appreciate both. Photography too, in days past they were enhanced in the darkroom now most often it's a digital darkroom. All good.

New for new, like for like, Graphite is cheaper... doesn't mean it's better or worse, but it will reflect the time spent making it and costs of materials. Shades of grey.

You know I respect yours I know you you respect mine. I'm not flying the flag for graphite, I voted Bamboo, but I'm playing devils advocate and adding balance. Both types can be very good and both can be very bad.
If I had to pick one rod to fish with for the rest of my life on smallstreams I'd pick Bamboo, not any Bamboo just my Bamboo, can I do anything with it that I can't do with my TXL? No. Can I do anything with my TXL I can't do with my Boo? No. I just appreciate it more on different levels, it's a personal thing.
Fishing rods... it's always a personal thing... shades of grey.

Ernest
12-21-2009, 10:01 AM
This is a good discussion.

I believe there are many good bamboo rods and many good graphite rods. I wrote earlier that “At retail prices, the graphite rod is the most expensive rod you can own.” Palewatery disagreed, and that’s fine; each of us has his own experiences.

I will never own the top of the line bamboo rods, or the top of the line graphites, either. I also do not drive a Maserati to the stream. But I like serviceable and nice looking rods, so I have good, mid-range and home-made stuff. And a Buick, and an eleven year old Chevy pickup.

I assume that we buy rods to keep them and fish them, and not as investments. It’s true that there are a number of good graphite rods now, at modest prices. But if a rod doesn’t fill its intended purpose, much of the retail price is lost. Used graphite rods sell for a fraction of the new price.

I wrote earlier that I had put under $900 into my current collection of 12 bamboo rods. I have willing buyers in my community that would pay at least $4000 for the bunch. None of them are for sale, but I’m satisfied with the price I paid vs. the current value of these rods.

adam
12-21-2009, 12:44 PM
You are right Ernest, it is an excellent discussion.

Bamboo brought forth graphite.

Graphite brings forth bamboo enthusiasts.

Jim and I agree, we both enjoy both types of rods, our philosophy is different.

I will make a rod for Jim, spend about 40 hours thinking about him and the rod he is receiving from me.

I truly think it is healthy to have differences of opinion and we learn from each other's perspective.

Graphite is cheap, no doubt.

Bamboo is inexpensive.

Each has attributes that compliment each other.

Hopefully, we can all learn from listening/reading each other.

Thank you for hanging in there with me Ernest and everyone else. I am often not clear in my writing because I write fast and often think ahead and write about the idea that is spawned by the one I am currently thinking about...

palewatery
12-21-2009, 11:27 PM
Ernest, I wonder, when you say you will never own top of the line Bamboo or Graphite rods…. If the fishing gods were to appear and offer you a swap, the rods you own and use now for a batch of top of the line in whatever matrix you choose… Would you take up the offer? Not a sale but a swap of your choice.
The reason I wonder and ask is that I agree 100% with you regarding buying rods to keep and fish rather than for investment, but my current position is very different from yours. I own a few rods less than you, as I have no wife or children to care for and used to have a decent job a chunk of my disposable income went on fishing in one form or another so I’ve spent just over $3000 on the rods I now own and more or less broke even on the other rods I’ve bought and sold over the years, leaning to less. If I sold them all now I guess I’d lose $600 where you would have a fourfold increase in value. Many of mine were/are top end be it 20 years ago or now, anyway there are many rods more expensive than mine nowadays but I very much doubt I’d take the offer as I don’t think they’d add anything to my time on the water. I suspect you’d say the same for the same reason but I don’t know and that’s why I ask. Would those top ends add anything to your fishing or would they just be collectors items? This might seem like a stupid question but I know top end Graphite and I don’t know much on top end Glass or Bamboo.

My experience with modern Graphite is similar I guess to buying cars, the minute you take it off the forecourt you lose a percentage of it’s value. They introduce a new replacement model and you lose another percentage, they then continue to devalue slowly and steadily after that until you get to a point where if you bought well and looked after them they become “classics” and the value goes up slightly and then hovers (Sage RPL’s, LL’s and SP’s seem to be there just now, especially some LL's). It might take another 20 years before we’ll really know if they’ll ever become more than that as the matrix is too young and in the past the quality has been spotty. You can find good percentage prices on used/replaced high ends but the further down the ranges you go the higher the percentage savings you’ll make. Same with makers, outside of Sage, Orvis, Winston and a few others there’s loads of good rods and those are the ones with the biggest and quickest percentage savings. Supply and demand.
As a general question to anyone, those who know the second hand Bamboo market better than me, which means anyone… Is the second hand Bamboo market much different? Do the high ends from the biggest names rise in value straight away or must they wait to become “classics”?

Adam, we do agree. Which can be unfortunate as where people disagree can make the most interesting discussions.
Bamboo brought forth Graphite, as did glass and where Bamboo was the entry point for a generation Glass was the entry point for me and Graphite is the entry point for most folk now. Where they go from that… I trust many will go to Bamboo.
An example of our difference in philosophy is where you say Graphite is cheap and Bamboo is inexpensive I say both are cheap or both are inexpensive. I know, I’m nit picking… but I can’t help myself. ;) :roll:

I’d love to fish a rod you’ve made. Maybe I will, I’d like it more if I fished it in Arizona. :D

adam
12-22-2009, 12:38 AM
Wow, I read a lot of passion in that.

I don't have that much passion for a graphite rod, it has no soul, easily popped out one just like another...

I won't break down the cost of graphite cloth, mandrel and things that go into making a graphite rod. I've watched Mark Steffen use a kitchen butter knife make a graphite rod on a mandrel, fashion spiggot ferrules and make so many of his rods, I think I've made 1 to 10-weights on his blanks and wow, not all that different from a Parsley Rod at $600 a pop. I've seen 12' long carbon fiber aircraft rods (for my hang glider) made with all the precision of a premium graphite rod, tested, lives depending on the rod and sold for less than half of a premium fly rod. And that's with a middle man...

Graphite is cheap!

Absolutely!

$600 for a cheap rod?

I'm not writing about deals on used last years rods.

I'm writing about the guy who spends all that time crafting a bamboo rod, you can do the math and come up with how much he makes per hour crafting that rod out of a living thing and how beautiful it is in hand. Bamboo has proven the test of time, composite construction hasn't had the time yet to do that.

Fiberglass and Graphite are one and the same with me, same construction techniques for the most part.

I'm NOT arguing with you, not one bit, just engaging in a conversation trying to learn something.

Time for bed, will continue latter?

Please?

adam
12-22-2009, 11:43 AM
Back, much of the cost of a top end graphite rod is "overhead" and goes to a company and advertising and such. You pay for the development process, the price of a guy making the rods that works for the company, and everything that goes with this.

Bamboo, you pay a fisherman to make your rod. You can break down the cost and see where the money went and the craftsman is working pretty inexpensively at just about any price point. There are names in bamboo just as there are names in graphite but with bamboo, you get more than what you get, dollar for dollar than you get for a plastic rod (fiberglass, what ever)

BTW, Mark Steffen, I would place him in the bamboo craftsman group even though he makes composite rods...

You pay pay pay for graphite.

Bamboo is not a money thing for me, it's an investment, not in money, but in my fishing and in the community.

My experiences come from observing huge groups of both types of anglers over the years generating and conversing with makers and fishers, graphite and bamboo.

This web site is one example.

I'm not looking for one single person to agree with me, just writing thoughts.

Ernest
12-22-2009, 11:47 AM
Palewatery,

Thanks for asking.

I won’t buy top of the line rods because I don’t want to put the money into them. I honor them as the best examples of the art or craft, but I don’t see them making my fishing much better.

Now, if the fishing gods offered me a deal that no one could refuse, I would take it. If the gods offered to trade $4,000 worth of top of the line rods for what I have now, I would decline. All the rods I own are fishing tools. I am not a collector.

(Actually a “fishing god” did once offer me a 20+ year old but unfished superb bamboo rod for about 1/10th of its market value, a deal I could not refuse. Some people would have kept it as a museum piece. I started fishing with it immediately. The rod is “worth” a lot more now than when I bought it, but it’s not for sale. I like it a lot, but I don’t like it any more than any other sweet casting rod.)

My family and neighbors are farmers, loggers, laborers, and craftsmen. I admire people for using their own ingenuity to solve a problem, rather than buying an answer. People make their own tools. Some of these tools are simple, and some are elaborate, thoughtful, and very well suited to their purpose. I like that. Last month I built a device to skid firewood logs up the hill and away from sensitive land with our horses, rather than tear up the ground with the truck or buy a commercial skidding tool. It’s good to make your own things. Both the horses and I learned something new, and we got the job done ecomonically. That’s a part of the reason I make my own wood rods. I learn something every time I make another rod. They work very well (okay, some of them work very well), and they are mine in a way that a purchased rod can never really be “mine.”

This reminds me of a commercial that ran on TV last year for a pickup truck. The plaid shirted and bearded owner is standing next to his new truck, with his hand on the fender. The off-screen narrator says something like “I see you have the shiny new truck of incredibly smart and incredibly handsome men, complete with the big dollar Ego-Booster Package. You must be proud!” The owner looks directly into the camera, pauses, and says “Yes I am!” Proud? Of buying a pickup truck? Come on. People admire my old pickup too, but it doesn’t make me proud. Now, if I had made the pickup truck from pieces of metal I picked off the ground, that would be something to be proud of. That guy's beard was too neatly trimmed and his fingernails were too clean for him to be like me.

So there you have my answer. I suppose I have a different outlook than some. Others' outlooks are completely valid too. My answer doesn't have to be everyone's final answer. Your mileage may vary.

adam
12-22-2009, 12:19 PM
G~d, I totally got that, great analogy.

terry
12-22-2009, 12:57 PM
Ok, I am going to pick your brains a little and ask for some input.

How do you guys feel about one of these kits:

http://www.hookhack.com/bamboo/

Could be a way to kill two birds with one stone and jump into bamboo and rod building all at once. Or it might be a way to ruin both for me very quickly. :think:

P.S. I have no affiliation with H&H, but I have dealt with them quite a bit and have always been very happy with their service.

greendrake
12-22-2009, 02:32 PM
Terry,
Contact smallstream member Steve Kiley.He has 2 6'8" 3wt F.E. Thomas tapered rods for sale that are basically finished except for the wraps and a final coat of poly.And at a VERY reasonable price.You will be getting a rod that is far better than anything you could get from H&H,especially if you were considering the imported Chinese blanks.Steve is a pro and his rods show it.In addition to that everyone who has experience with this taper ALL say the same thing.It is very simply the best 3wt bamboo taper that exists.If you are considering stepping up to a bamboo rod you owe it to yourself to at least check it out.
Will

mikeytwoshoes
12-22-2009, 02:52 PM
will's advice is sound. do it. I really really wanted to buy one of those blanks, but because I'm too broke to pay attention I've gotta build my own from scratch.

you will be getting a top notch blank from a very highly regarded maker.

adam
12-22-2009, 03:07 PM
Yes to what these guys said.

Steve is an excellent guide in this.

stevekiley
12-22-2009, 03:10 PM
thanks guys,i fish cane,just love it,steve

Ernest
12-22-2009, 03:58 PM
I don't know Steve Kiley, but I would always prefer to deal with the craftsman instead of an importer.

I have a 6'8" 3wt made on a modified (a bit) Payne 97 taper. It's smooth and deliberate, and I like it a lot. The F. E. Thomas taper is a bit faster, right?

greendrake
12-22-2009, 07:03 PM
It's basically known as a dry fly taper.I hate to describe the action because what is fast to me may not be fast to someone else etc. But since you asked I would say it's a bit on the fast side of medium.I made one that I used the Hexrod program to stretch to 7' instead of 6'8" and still don't know why I did that instead of keeping it the original length,especially since I prefer to fish the shortest rod I can get away with in a given situation.At any rate,it's a pleasure to fish and I will soon have one in the original length anyway. :shaking2:
Will

palewatery
12-22-2009, 10:34 PM
Palewatery,

Thanks for asking.

And thanks for your answer Ernest it’s what I expected, measured, practical and honest but it’s more than I hoped for as well.

I would have taken that deal as well, a superb rod for a fraction of its value is an offer few would turn down and I would have fished it too.
In my question I was meaning offered a dozen to replace your dozen but I didn’t phrase it too well, judging their value to you only, I suppose the best way to say that would have been replace them one for one (all 12 or none at all) with whatever you chose but freezing the value so you could use them as you wished but they could never be sold for more than the value of your own. Re-sale was never in my mind and that’s probably why I phrased my question poorly. There’s no need to re-answer though.
Like you I’m not a collector and I’ve no wish to become one, money is not a significant driving force in my life. If a fishing rod is not fished then it’s not a fishing rod, it’s an exhibit or an ornament, I think we share that view as well?

I understand your outlook and how it came about, I’m from a different background… countryside but town… I never learned those types of skills. The guy in the plaid shirt, it sounds like a poor advertising campaign, if it actually worked I’d be disappointed in society. That said society often disappoints me.



Wow, I read a lot of passion in that.

Sorry Adam, honestly it wasn’t written with passion. I first posted in this thread just as I said earlier.. to play devils advocate and add a balance or different viewpoint. I don’t have a passion for any of the rods I own and I don’t think of any type of rod as having a soul. Passion is a very strong word. I appreciate them for how they work, the skill involved in design and manufacture, what I can do with them and so on. How they look is part of that too, a small part. I enjoy them and I love using them but at the end of the day they are tools. There’s nothing stopping tools from being art but to me they are what they are. I have a passion for fishing though.
I appreciate you have a passion for Bamboo, more power to you. The point I made earlier about terminology, cheap and inexpensive, both those words have the same meaning but carry different connotations. Plastic, another word with a negative connotation. Adam you’re a clever man and I might be overly cynical but I just get the impression those words and the way they are used is not accidental. Same with the comparison pictures you paint of the graphite rod industry, I just see it as a business serving a customer base like any other. Is the money they spend on advertising a much higher percentage than any other type of company?

We’ll have to agree to disagree as neither one of us will change the others opinions

adam
12-23-2009, 12:20 AM
No apology necessary.

But I generally don't agree with, disagree or understand what you write on this topic.

I'm ok with that.

I simply have a different perspective.

I am not trying to change your opinion however it is possible that you could change mind.

Nor do I feel like you are wrong or I am write.




I don't feel like I need to describe what "plastic" means in referencing a graphite rod, especially in light of the last rod I bought was one of the plastic variety and another one somewhere in the future.

I'm ok with making sweeping generalizations.

Anything bamboo is cool...

I am not special or trying to do anything more than show my passion for promoting fishing with bamboo.


...or plastic.



On a favorite section of a favorite stream, I will pull open a telescopic graphite rod, quickly attach a line to the tip and flick a cast pretending I am a kid again fishing with a cane pole.

We have a section here dedicated to Tenkara, pretty much dominated by one company and now it sounds like there is another guy who is going to import them to America. I'm looking for another avenue to find out if there are other plastic Tenkara rods out there instead of just one company. I would like to see a bunch of Tenkara rod companies available and more importantly, I would like to see the talented bamboo craftsmen make bamboo Tenkara rods available like the discipline came from.

On another section of that stream, on the same hike, I'll put together a short three piece bamboo fly rod (that I bought from a friend who made it specially for me) and send a cast to gin clear and skinny water to try and outwit a 6" brook trout. I don't need to catch a big fish to be happy, I don't even need to fish to be happy. I'll write about it and share it with other people around the world.

I enjoy that but my family is my source of joy.

I get to be me and you get to be you. (goes for anyone)

I am passionate about rods, reels, line, guys who tie beautiful flys, make wood fly rods, bamboo rods, plastic rods, drive old trucks, guys who sit at their computer in Alaska who are part of running our country's parks and resources and enjoy smallstreams.com

I don't need anyone to fish the way I do, I simply enjoy writing about what I enjoy and reading about what others are passionate about.

Writing is a great pass time, I make web sites available for people to share common interests. I enjoy and promote diversity and I learn more from disagreements than I do from agreements.


I think the guys who are into bamboo are the best fly fisher's.

You are included in that group even though you like plastic rods.



Like I do.



All good, catch you later.

terry
12-23-2009, 07:56 AM
I love to fly fish and have always viewed my rod as a tool that allows me to do something I love. Doesn't matter if its graphite or bamboo, its still a man made object that I carry with me into what I really love, the woods and streams within them.

Its pretty simple for me, I get my kicks from nature itself, not my gear. I don't sit down and admire my rod, but I often take breaks to admire what nature has to offer. And I definitely admire the trout that dwell in the streams I fish. Fly fishing is a way for me to enjoy the woods and streams I love while performing a simple, yet elegant form of an ancient sport that gets me closer to the trout.

So to be honest with you, I am not sure using a bamboo rod will add to my experience much. That being said, I do like to fish the best tool for the job and from what I have read, bamboo seems to excel in close quarter fishing. Function over form.

Don't get me wrong though, I do respect people who can sit down and make any fine piece of equipment by hand. The talent that goes into such a task is amazing in my book. I am just more into the reason why I am out there, not so much the tools that I use.

Hope this makes sense to someone.

adam
12-23-2009, 08:43 AM
When I was a boy, I dreamed of running into the air and flying high above the trees.

When I became a young man, I taught myself to fly a hang glider, then a paraglider, then a ultra-light, a sailplane...

They all have attributes but all are flying machines, some get you farther than others.


I can sit here and dream of flying now having done it so much, I don't even need a glider.



But I feel the urge and every once in a while I'll go to the hill and practice what I love, looking around high above the earth.




This is a web site about fly fishing, none of this matters however, the reason why we are here is fishing and that's what we are conversing about.


I'm enjoying this topic very much, I am learning.

terry
12-23-2009, 06:19 PM
I'm enjoying this topic very much, I am learning.

So am I

greendrake
12-23-2009, 10:41 PM
If I weren't fishing bamboo,it would be 1 of my fiberglass rods.Funny,out of 28 votes only 1 person is using fiberglass.I would have thought that there would have been at least a couple.

Ernest
12-24-2009, 08:35 AM
I think fewer of us have experienced really good fiberglass rods than bamboo rods.

I started fly fishing with poor glass rods, got rid of those when I found some good glass rods, and stopped using those when graphite came out. Then I moved to bamboo, traded the glass rods off in a swap for something, and now in small streams I fish a mix of homemade wood and bamboo.

(I own a few graphite rods. I use the bigger ones for large rivers and lakes and ponds, but not for small or medium sized streams.)

The best glass rods have become a specialty item almost. They are not in most shops and stores, and the shops and stores upsell the graphite rods. You can find glass rods if you look, but with the marketing hype about graphite and bamboo, the good news about glass is drowned out.

I bought a very nice glass rod in a charity silent auction. One of my grown kids borrowed it for a trip out west. I was looking forward to getting it back, but I was out of luck; he liked it too much. When I went over to his house I looked everywhere, but he had hidden it from me.

adam
12-24-2009, 08:39 AM
I am surprised as well.

Mark Steffen only makes fiberglass rods now. He used to make graphite primarily...

Personally, I think fiberglass is the worst medium for the reasons why so many people like it. If I wanted something that felt like bamboo, I would fish a bamboo rod., if I wanted something non bamboo, I would fish a plastic rod.

Our wants, needs, choices are all interesting to read.

The guys who make wood rods are very interesting. I have a couple of blanks ready to take down in the shop because of my research into it, listening, reading what they had to write, their interest, passion for that medium. It is readily available and like many, I enjoy knowing that anglers make their own fly rods.

I hope that Ernest writes more about making and more importantly, fishing wood rods here or somewhere else at this site.

terry
12-24-2009, 08:57 AM
I use to have a fenwick fenglass 6' 5 weight that I really liked. Great little rod. Selling it was a stupid move on my part. :(

adam
12-24-2009, 09:39 AM
Fenwick "Fleaflickers" are awesome!

I loved those rods until I was introduced to a good small stream bamboo fly rod.

I had the 5'3", the 6' and the 6'6" gifted to me by the designer. Fenwick ferrule technology was used in developing Sage ferrules. That is huge.

That would be a good article to go back and try to find in the wayback machine. Pete and I fished those fleaflickers hard and wrote about them quite a bit.

I forgot about that, thanks for jogging the memory.

terry
12-24-2009, 10:36 AM
Awesome is a good description. I would love to get my hands on a 6'6" model. These rods can handle anything a small stream fisher will throw at them. Its too bad Fenwick stopped producing these.

adam
12-24-2009, 10:58 AM
eBay.

I've purchased a couple from there less than $150 but that was a few years ago before fiberglass was "discovered"

You will be able to find one if you have time and a little money saved to strike when the time is right.

Good choice BTW.

adam
12-24-2009, 11:01 AM
I think Hardy is making fiberglass rods, you may want to look into that. I understand they are reasonably priced (hows that for contradicting myself)

mikeytwoshoes
12-24-2009, 11:11 AM
I'm kinda planning (hoping) to build a steffen bros 3/4wt 7'6" 4pc fiberglass pack rod.
not a priority by any strech of the imagination, but fly rod assembly can be finished right rapidly.

priorities are the 6'8" thomas 3wt and a contest prize blank. bamboo rods do not come together rather rapidly and the holidaze are not conducive to shop time...here's one ready to dip. now I just need the weather to cooperate.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/mikeytwoshoes/PC240006.jpg
d. degere ice cream hole parlor special 6'8" 2wt

terry
12-24-2009, 11:21 AM
I think Hardy is making fiberglass rods, you may want to look into that. I understand they are reasonably priced (hows that for contradicting myself)

I think bamboo might be a priority right now. And I really want a pack rod(4 piece). So many rods so little $.

Talk about contradiction, I am the guy who said I don't get off on my gear. :roll:

palewatery
12-24-2009, 05:48 PM
Damn... Miss a day to go shopping (and watch Avatar.. which was cool) and I've a whole page to catch up.

My first rod was Glass and it was a real donkey, my mate had a Hardy glass and if he wasn't going fishing I could borrow his instead.... his was sweet, chalk and cheese from mine.

When I saw Hardy were making glass again I really wanted to try one, mostly for nostalgia, it would be nice to take one back to the old holes and try to re-live the birth.

I could even break out the sewing thread and tie up copies of the hideous flies I used back then. :D

adam
12-24-2009, 05:59 PM
You are getting much much better with your rod photography Mikeytwoshoes.

Jim, I heard Avatar was just off the wall cool.

palewatery
12-24-2009, 06:06 PM
It was Adam.

I'll go back again before it leaves the cinema.

greendrake
12-24-2009, 07:21 PM
If you ever get a chance to cast a Russ Peak fiberglass rod,don't pass up the opportunity.I will never sell my 6'6" 4wt.Another nice glass rod is a 4 piece 7' Fenwick glass pack rod that I purchased in 1972.This was right after they went from the olive/gold blanks to the chocolate brown blanks.
The Russ Peak rods that I have seen on ebay have all gone for a $1000 or more and 90% of them went to Japan where they have a huge cult following.
Will

stevekiley
12-24-2009, 07:38 PM
i have seen the avitar 2 times ,its that good,steve

mikeytwoshoes
12-25-2009, 12:37 AM
You are getting much much better with your rod photography Mikeytwoshoes.



nah. it's still the s.o.s.
I have to learn it and more importantly take the time to learn it.
similar to shooting flies. I can figure it out.

terry
12-26-2009, 01:55 PM
I think Hardy is making fiberglass rods, you may want to look into that. I understand they are reasonably priced (hows that for contradicting myself)

I just looked into these. They look very sweet. Anyone who likes glass owes it to themselves to check these out.

Mostyn
12-28-2009, 12:44 PM
A couple of days before Christmas, I took delivery of my NEW 6ft.3in,#3,weight Harris Cane Fly Rod! Roll on March, 2010, I'm really looking forward to using it on my local stream, along with the silk line I have acquired to compliment the "Little Vixen" (name of the rod) I just know it's going to be "Magical"

Mostyn

greendrake
12-28-2009, 08:07 PM
Mostyn,
Is that Tim Harris of the UK? He posts and has put pics of his rods on the Classic Fly Rod Forum and he makes really nice looking rods.If you get a chance post pics of yours please.
Will

palewatery
12-28-2009, 09:34 PM
He used to post here a couple of years ago.
Helped me out with some advice for fishing in Yorkshire and posted some great reports. Does make some beautiful rods too as far as I can remember.

All round top bloke.

Mostyn
12-29-2009, 07:07 AM
Mostyn,
Is that Tim Harris of the UK? He posts and has put pics of his rods on the Classic Fly Rod Forum and he makes really nice looking rods.If you get a chance post pics of yours please.
Will

Hi Will,

yes, it's a Tim Harris custom build : tim@harrisflyrods.co.uk or Google Harris flyrods! Here are some (not very good) photos of my new Girl.

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/2240/pc170436.jpg (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/pc170436.jpg/)

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7580/pc170428.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/i/pc170428.jpg/)

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/6194/pc170441.jpg (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/pc170441.jpg/)
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1973/imgp1812n.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/i/imgp1812n.jpg/)
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9825/img0420jo.jpg (http://img20.imageshack.us/i/img0420jo.jpg/)
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2686/img0418bm.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/i/img0418bm.jpg/)

Tim Harris, is a top class Cane Rod Builder! Unfortunately my photography doesn't do his work justice! Tim is a really nice guy and easy to get along with and makes some of the best cane rods in the UK! I would not hesitate to commission another cane rod with him! I'm really pleased with the "Little Vixen"

Mostyn

greendrake
12-29-2009, 09:00 AM
That is a beauty! Thanks for sharing the pics.
Will

JB in SC
01-01-2010, 08:38 PM
A lovely 'boo rod.

My current favorite is a Hardy 6' 2 wt graphite, nice short range caster.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/22hunter/IMG_0450.jpg

lawrenceh_w
01-04-2010, 09:43 AM
Just joined the forum. Great looking site with lots of useful information.

I use a 6' #2 TFO rod for the moment. I'm looking at getting a 6'6" #3 Greys Streamflex for next year.

Being from the UK I also do a lot of bait and lure fishing on small rivers. So I use spinning rods (using fixed spool reels) as well as float and leger rods (using centrepin reels).

john
01-28-2010, 05:36 PM
Bamboo rod I won on smallstreams.com.

wrknapp
01-28-2010, 09:31 PM
I first started with graphite, then went to bamboo, then to fiberglass, then back to bamboo, then back to glass and now Tenkara graphite rods. I have been very fickle about this but I think I have finally found my nich with the simplicity of Tenkara. I like everything about it.

Randy

Skeet6
02-10-2010, 11:12 AM
On my back-woods streams, I like to use one of the first Orvis One-weights. (was shipped for testing to the previous owner, an Orvis shop owner then)... I also can be found with my SL 804, more apt to smack into trees, and the like anyway...
Mike B

kurt76
03-05-2010, 04:36 PM
my chosen rod for small waters dry fly work.


http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p59/reptilian_photos/P1000891.jpg


Vision Cult 7'6 #3 with a greys streamlite 3/4

Chalkstream
03-05-2010, 05:34 PM
My small stream rig is a Sage TXL 7ft 3wt and a Danielsson Original Nymph reel. The rod is great but I think I'm going to have to overline it to get it to really work at close range, and I may 'have' to invest in a Hardy Glass rod :D - I'm rediscovering flex in rods after a while in the world of fast action, which frankly away from salt water leaves me a bit cold. And Mostyn's beautiful cane rod is getting me thinking of starting saving...

EDIT - 4wt line works a treat - it's staying on :D

Can't seem to vote on the poll on this thread???

rayfound
03-05-2010, 05:37 PM
Sage TXL 00wt:

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Rayfound/70ff5f99.jpg

Pete-G
03-15-2010, 12:23 PM
For any of you that know me from other forums and I think this forum. (was there another older version?) I have gone through a ton of fly rods. Graphite, glass, and bamboo. I was looking for something, but wasn't sure what it was. I felt that when I found it i'd know right away. I also fished many different types of waters. I kind of liked the Frying Pan, but the crowds drove me nuts. No to mention the 200 mile round trip.
I finally settled on small streams as my favorite kind of fishing. It put the biggest smile on my face, and it did it everytime. Ok, so that made picking a rod a little easier. Sort of. Again I tried graphite, glass, and bamboo, but now in shorter lengths. I love the looks and tradition of bamboo. It's what my grandpa used. Graphite leaves me cold. Even if they do cast well.(some) Glass is ok, but still not the tradition of bamboo and i'm not crazy over the looks.

So, it was going to be bamboo for sure. Not a hard decision, because I love bamboo. I looked for the perfect rod for my streams. I wanted a well known taper, because, well, tradition again. After much experimenting I settled on the Garrison 201 taper. It has a soft tip and will load with 1' of line out. It will also cast a good distance when needed. Farther than I can see the fly, and that far enough. I do fish a pond during runoff, and the distance helps. The rod does all I ask of it in my fishing, and puts a huge smail on my face everytime I use it. Which is everyday I fish.

My battle of buying and selling rods is over. I have no interest in the latest and greatest fly fishing gear. I love tradition and i'm comfortable back in that time period. Catching fish is a bonus.

grayling
04-05-2010, 10:45 AM
I'm the other fiberglass smallstream guy here ... Steffen 3/4 wt 7 1/2', 5/6 wt 8'3" and McFarland 4wt 8'0", & soon 7 wt 8'6" for the occasional really big smallstream fish here. Break out the 75 and 79 Fenwick when i need to visualize fishing next to my dad again. Been known to sneak in the LL 3wts 5'6" and 6'6" plastic rods when i figure adam is not looking :D Started tenkara fishing in 1985 on Kauai ... only we called it oama fishing then (google) When I figured out i could catch redbanded trout in the Alakai swamp smallstream ... i died and went to heaven. Hurricane Iniki trashed the stream in 1992. So i transfer to AK in 1994. Recently picked up Ayu ... oh no !! i'm hooked again. I have my dad Orvis impregnated Madison and i assembled a Golden Witch Bamboo 4 wt 7 1/2' rod from pieces and parts. Most hardcore bamboo fishers probably don't consider them "bamboo" but it's all i know ... nice ... but i won't trade it for my glass. If i ever get a spare $2500+ laying around i'll get another airhead beemer bike before smoking some grass ... no wait i better put that another way ... but then maybe not ... retirement just aroung the corner :P

ryan
04-05-2010, 07:48 PM
I have a 6' 3 wt. Chris McDowell bamboo that I fish paired with a Ross Colorado 1 for most of the small streams I fish, though if I'm hiking a long ways in, I'll bring graphite. I also have a Fenwick "flea-flicker" fiberglass that is only ~5' in length that I break out on a few select streams and an assortment of graphite in 1, 2, 3, and 4 weights ranging from 6'-9'. I've been curious about the resurgence of fiberglass with Scott, Hardy and the older Diamondglass series, but am less interested in getting more rods when the ones I have don't see the water often enough and suit me just fine.

adam
04-05-2010, 09:05 PM
Grayling!

Easy now...

I love the LL's, those are just about the best plastik rods I have ever cast, beside my Seki Rei ? (http://www.tenkara-fisher.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=7) which is very sweet... So sweet, I will probably fish it more than bamboo this summer, ohhh

:D

I wish you would post more but hey, soon you won't have an excuse having retired and needing to get all those stories off your chest.

cfr
04-28-2010, 05:53 AM
My fav smallstream rod is a Sage TXL #00 - brilliant little rod, with HUGE abilities!!!

Some pics of a couple of fish taken on the "Twin" - all in the Rhodes area, South Africa. The 1st pic was taken recently in Lesotho, and shows a fish of average proportions.

The good pics were taken by Darryl Lampert ...

http://www.customflyrods.co.za/sspics/1.jpg

http://www.customflyrods.co.za/sspics/2.jpg

http://www.customflyrods.co.za/sspics/3.jpg

http://www.customflyrods.co.za/sspics/4.jpg

http://www.customflyrods.co.za/sspics/5.jpg

http://www.customflyrods.co.za/sspics/6.jpg

http://www.customflyrods.co.za/sspics/7.jpg

http://www.customflyrods.co.za/sspics/8.jpg

http://www.customflyrods.co.za/sspics/9.jpg

planettrout
05-14-2010, 09:36 AM
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn202/planettrout/ally-mad-net.jpg

Winston, 7'6' Fiberglass 4wt. "Stalker", 2pc., San Francisco made...that my daughter, Ally, is hold in a side channel on the Madison River, MT...

PT/TB :thumbup:

Grizzly Wulff
05-19-2010, 07:22 PM
I have a number of small stream bamboo rods that I like but the one I seem to go to the most often is a Steve Kiley 7 ft with a Hardy Featherweight reel loaded with a WTF4 that has the front taper trimmed back about 24 inches. This rod has been responsible for several of my friends bank accounts being diminished severely after they fished it and decided that bamboo wasn't "too old school."

lawrenceh_w
05-21-2010, 04:58 AM
I've been using a March Brown Hidden Water 7-piece, 6'6" #3 rod this year witha DT3 line. I need to get a new reel (looking at an Orvis BBS I ... it just looks so ... right). The good thing with the rod is that the section above the butt can be removed (no rod ring) instantly shortening it to 5'6". Really handy for those tight little spots.

So far I'm very impressed with it. It's got a lovely mid to full flex action. Nice and matt finish as well. The cork handle fits really nicely in my hand as well.

flickfly
02-09-2011, 06:04 PM
I went back to glass rods. Its a more relaxed casting style. Glass rods are tough rods they can take the abuse of brush busting and "tunnel" fishing.

Mostyn
04-29-2011, 10:38 AM
For any of you that know me from other forums and I think this forum. (was there another older version?) I have gone through a ton of fly rods. Graphite, glass, and bamboo. I was looking for something, but wasn't sure what it was. I felt that when I found it i'd know right away. I also fished many different types of waters. I kind of liked the Frying Pan, but the crowds drove me nuts. No to mention the 200 mile round trip.
I finally settled on small streams as my favorite kind of fishing. It put the biggest smile on my face, and it did it everytime. Ok, so that made picking a rod a little easier. Sort of. Again I tried graphite, glass, and bamboo, but now in shorter lengths. I love the looks and tradition of bamboo. It's what my grandpa used. Graphite leaves me cold. Even if they do cast well.(some) Glass is ok, but still not the tradition of bamboo and i'm not crazy over the looks.

So, it was going to be bamboo for sure. Not a hard decision, because I love bamboo. I looked for the perfect rod for my streams. I wanted a well known taper, because, well, tradition again. After much experimenting I settled on the Garrison 201 taper. It has a soft tip and will load with 1' of line out. It will also cast a good distance when needed. Farther than I can see the fly, and that far enough. I do fish a pond during runoff, and the distance helps. The rod does all I ask of it in my fishing, and puts a huge smail on my face everytime I use it. Which is everyday I fish.

My battle of buying and selling rods is over. I have no interest in the latest and greatest fly fishing gear. I love tradition and i'm comfortable back in that time period. Catching fish is a bonus.

I'm with you on this Pete,

Something special and magical about a boo rod designed for small streams! My Rod is a 6ft.3in, #3,weight Tim Harris Cane Rod - I asked Tim to make it using a Cattanach Taper! It's extremely lightweight for a Cane Rod and has a small diameter, I love it! although I now have two more cane rods - but the Tim Harris is my favourite. I've also gone for the Hardy Lightweight Reels to compliment the small stream rods.

adam
04-30-2011, 06:29 PM
I have run the full gamut.

I love all sorts of rods, fiberglass being the least, only because it is a compromise between graphite and bamboo, it is not great at anything except being a good compromise.

However, because a premium tenkara rod is so compact, those damn things are really nice for backpacking. I don't find much of a compromise there.

Bamboo is just awesome, beautiful and a work of art.

Tenkara rods are the best at a minimalistic approach.

But if I had only one rod for small streams, no other choices, it would be a 6'6" bamboo rod in 4 weight, I would use a silk line.

But I don't have to use one rod, I have several including the one above but I reach for a 11' tenkara rod most of the time.

troutrageous1
05-07-2011, 08:59 PM
I've been using a March Brown Hidden Water 7-piece, 6'6" #3 rod this year witha DT3 line. I need to get a new reel (looking at an Orvis BBS I ... it just looks so ... right). The good thing with the rod is that the section above the butt can be removed (no rod ring) instantly shortening it to 5'6". Really handy for those tight little spots.

So far I'm very impressed with it. It's got a lovely mid to full flex action. Nice and matt finish as well. The cork handle fits really nicely in my hand as well.
You're not kidding, I picked up a MB 7' 4 weight about a year or two ago to serve as a travel rod - so easy to carry on an airplane - and I'm surprised how much I like it.
The fact that it breaks down a section is pretty convenient. Not my first choice when fishing smaller water (I've become a bit of a tenkara junkie), but not a rod I feel bad about grabbing.
I pair it with a relatively inexpensive Albright Topwater Click & Pawl, makes for a nice match.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PdIpP5rmbD8/Sy2ieWr5E7I/AAAAAAAAA9k/NDe8S801lTo/s1600/005%2B%5B640x480%5D.JPG

springwell
06-22-2011, 03:12 PM
On everything but the tiniest trickle I will always use a long rod, 10'-0" Orvis Helios 4wt, med tip action, also 12'-0" Tenkara Iwana.

Minimum line on the water has always been my philosophy.

Bill

Mark
08-28-2011, 12:05 AM
I mostly fish graphite on small water. My favorites right now are a WW Grigg made 8' 4 weight that I under line and fish with a #3 double taper line, and a Cabela's Wind River 8'6" 4 weight that I over line with a #5 WF line. I just finished building a pair of fly rods - one of them is a small stream special of 5'6". It's a 5/6 weight - not by choice, really, but necessity. The rod was originally supposed to be an 11' long 3 weight. I got the blank from eBay, it was sold as an unmarked imported close-out rod. Well, the only thing accurate about the description was the color and number of sections of the blank. In it's fully assembled form, a #6 line barely loaded the rod, so I took it down section by section, and found that it cast sweetly with a #5 or 6 line. Not the #3 I wanted, but it worked. I got to fish the rod for the first time on my lunch break at work today. Had a few strikes from some small trout - but didn't get any solid hook ups, but then I could only fish for about 15 minutes.

Previous favorite small water rods were a TFO 6' 2 weight, a Cabela's Three Forks 3 weight, and a WW Grigg 9' 4 weight.

My 30th birthday is a month from today - and if I can scrape together the funds, I'd really like to get my hands on a Steffen 3 or 4 weight blank and build it up.

adam
08-31-2011, 07:18 AM
Mark makes awesome blanks.

I have had him make me dozens of them.

Highly recommended, the ferrules are no issue, will last forever...

flickfly
08-21-2012, 12:25 PM
Still fishing my Glass rods & enjoying them. I still have a couple of rods built on Shikari blanks that I like as well as an Orvis Superfine 7"9 2wt.

gusstrand
08-21-2012, 11:12 PM
Superfines rocked. Loved them.

drew03cmc
08-28-2012, 06:09 PM
I am looking into a Steve Kiley Deschutes...liking what I see and can't wait until the funds free up. Until then, my 6'6" 5wt that a buddy built for me will suffice.