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View Full Version : Sno-Fly VII. Modern Midges Celebration Swap PART TWO !!!!



Alpinefly
11-06-2009, 12:04 PM
As Smallstreams at the time was down with my first posting of Sno-Fly, and the list from the First Sno-Fly Swap posted on Fly Tying Forum Filled fast as well as many of my friends did not want to miss out, I am hosting a second Sno-Fly VII Modern MIdges Celebration Swap.
For those that were unable to get on the first list, please feel free to sign up on this one .
Midges of any size as long as they represent midges (Diptera/ Chironomids) in larva, pupa, emerger, or adult stage . Mail-In Deadline for these midges is January 1st 2010 .
This swap is for those of you who did not get into the first swap !!!!! I am posting here to give many of my friends on smallstreams a chance !!!!!! This is also posted on Fly Tying Forum in addition to the Sno-Fly Swap's First List (as a separate Sno-Fly Swap) !!!!

1. John Larson (Glo-Lite Series Midge Emerger Set of 3)
2. Roy Christie Received
3. Kevan J. Evans Received (midges tied by 6 year old Linet Evans)
4. ericsb RECEIVED
5. Mikeytwoshoes (Shucka Khan) RECEIVED
6. rich5665 RECEIVED
7. utyer RECEIVED
8. blizz79 (Kimballs Emerger) RECEIVED
9. Professori (Olive WD-40's) RECEIVED
10. Fly_piscator (Arkansas Tungsten Zebra Midges) RECEIVED
11. Keruso (Black Fly Midge) RECEIVED
12. littleman Received
13. Box to be Donated to Casting For Recovery

mikeytwoshoes
11-06-2009, 12:35 PM
I'll play.
will tie shucka khans - dynamite on the san juan.

Alpinefly
11-06-2009, 02:36 PM
I thought you were retired from swaps ohhhhhh Quarterback Brett Farr !!!!! LMAOROFL
Nice to have ya aboard !!!!!!!!! :clap:

Eric, you will get broken in real fast with this bunch !!!!!

:crazy: Whooooa.... I'm still reeling from the concussion I got yesterday, and my wife wants to drag me to the supermarket lol !!!!!!
OK, we have seven spots left on this list !!!!!!!
Get on here people !!! The first list filled fast, and caught a lot of people snoozing !!!!! lol

Alpinefly
11-06-2009, 06:19 PM
Four Spots left for this Sno-Fly VII. Modern Midge Swap (Part2) !!!!!!!! Remember, after 12, this swap is closed (ya snooze, ya lose) !!!!!!!!

mikeytwoshoes
11-06-2009, 06:39 PM
oh man...I don't know why you had to open this up to the tools from that other site.
I hate that place.

Alpinefly
11-06-2009, 06:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGQEPZqNZU8


Here is a link from the midge section of "Bugs Of The Underworld" (on You Tube).
Ralph and Lisa Cutter have done an amazeing job on filming for this DVD .
If you are a serious tyer or fly fisherman or both, this is a must have for your library.
You will really like this section on midges !!!!!!!!!!!!
Please feel free to share anything midge wise (pattern pics, info, videos, or whatever)
on this Sno-Fly post !!!!! I like to try and make this swap educational !!!!!
I always find many amazeing things to learn when it comes to midges !!!!!!!!

Alpinefly
11-06-2009, 08:33 PM
Three spots left on the Sno-Fly list !!!!!

AndyBaird
11-07-2009, 11:25 AM
Three spots left on the Sno-Fly list !!!!!

Can I get involved?

Fly_piscator
11-07-2009, 09:35 PM
I would like to participate.
Arkansas Tungsten Zebra midges.

Alpinefly
11-07-2009, 10:34 PM
Sno-Fly VII. Modern Midge Celebration Swap (part 2) IS Officially Closed !!!!



The last three spots have been filled !!! I would especially like to welcome Alan Hoover to Sno-Fly and as a new member of smallstreams community. I invited him over from Facebook .
He is on my friend's list !!!!

I will PM everybody my mailing address and also my 3 e-mail addresses (so no excuses as to being able to contact me !!! Please PM me your e-mail address !!!!
This year's Sno Fly is very special in that there are Two Sno-Fly Swaps I am hosting.
I look forward to seeing everyone's midges !!! Thanks, you are what makes Sno-Fly so special; you and shareing your midge tying talent and ideas !!!! :thumbup:

Please, remember, Mail-in deadline is January 1st !!! Good idea to have the midges tied and packaged before your terrible New Year's hangover !!! :crazy: :rpuke: :shaking2:

mikeytwoshoes
11-08-2009, 11:08 AM
so you didn't let andy baird in?

Alpinefly
11-08-2009, 11:57 AM
Personally, I would have no problem with it, but when I started adding to the list in the first swap, I had tyers get all anal and drop out !!!! I started a second swap with the idea I would keep this at 12 tyers, because, again, there are those on the list that would get mad :roll: about having more then 12 tyers !!!!! Let's see, I am hosting this swap (really two Sno-Fly swaps); everyone is getting a set of 3 Glo-Lite Series Midge emergers :shock: , so I am cranking out a total of 81 midges :crazy: . I just woke up this morning (I was awake till after midnight) and saw Andy's private message. I had posted the swap closed yesterday afternoon and the list was full !!!! I said to people on the first swap, get in, sign up, this will fill up fast !!!!
The second list did the same !!!! There are a lot more tyers that wanted to get in that personally I would love to have in !!!!!

mikeytwoshoes
11-09-2009, 01:34 PM
that's a great fly.
and like most effective midges are simple to tie.

mikeytwoshoes
11-09-2009, 03:49 PM
I'm done.

mikeytwoshoes
11-09-2009, 05:07 PM
midges are quick and dirty. tied 15 in less than an hour.

AndyBaird
11-10-2009, 05:06 AM
so you didn't let andy baird in?

Thanks for the props mikeytwoshoes.... Alpinefly did PM me with a full explanation. I must be slowing down with age, I'll be quick off the mark next time. And these need a little more work before submission... :geek:

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm207/VooDooBiology/smallstreams/CIMG3902.jpg

Alpinefly
11-12-2009, 09:24 PM
FINAL INSTRUCTIONS: Most of you should know the swap routine by now !!!
Put midges in a container or box that is protected (an Altoids box is always great or I use spare Walgreens pill bottles); Toe Tag with you name, name & size of pattern, and e-mail address !!! Place in a bubble mailer & place another folded self addressed & stamped Bubble Mailer inside !!!!!!

Send Midges To: John Larson
2224 N. Camino Castile #1018
Tucson, Arizona 85715

Mail-In Deadline is January 1st !!!!! As Larry The Cable Guy Says," GET ER DONE" !!!!!
BTW Andy, that does look like one suhhhweeeet fly !!!!!!! I am one that would add more,
but there are a few that frown on that !!!!
This second list is also posted on Fly Tying Forum !!!!!
The first list of Sno-Fly Swappers (posted on Fly Tying Forum) are really starting off with a bang ( the bar is always set high) !!!! I am all ready to head for a bit of midgeing !!!!!!!
I do need all of your e-mail addresses if you can PM me with them !!!! Thanks !!!!!
Cheers & Tight Lines !!!!
John (Alpinefly)

Alpinefly
11-29-2009, 11:31 PM
I hope all of you had a great Thanksgiving weekend; I did !!!!! Plenty of pigging out, good beer and wine, tied lots of midges, and watched plenty of great football !!!!
I hope all of you will use this post with plenty of your great midge ideas and techniques !!!
We should all plan a Sno-Fly Midge Swap trip next year (ya think ???) !!!! ;)

Alpinefly
12-02-2009, 09:19 PM
I just received a package of slobberliscious :P Olive WD-40's all the way from British Columbia and Professori :ugeek: !!! Professori :ugeek: also gets the first to show award on this second list of Sno-Fly VII. !!! Thanks !!!!!!! :clap:

Alpinefly
12-04-2009, 09:15 PM
I just received a package all the way from Frisco, Colorado, and Kevin Evans .
Now here is the added surprise. These very nicely tied #20 midges were tied by 6 year old Linet !!!! All I can say is Wow :shock: ....I am very impressed !!!! The future of Fly Fishing and Fly tying is in very good hands. I do hope all of you take time out and mentor an young child or youth in Fly Fishing and/or Fly Tying . You will be more then rewarded. :bigthumb:
My two boys, Michael and Luke will have a new friend to show them the area streams next time we are in Colorado, and Linet can guide me too !!! Kevin, I know you are a real proud Dad !!!! :clap:

Alpinefly
12-07-2009, 06:16 PM
I just received a package of very nicely tied Arkansas Zebra Midges from Alan Hoover.
The original Zebra Midge Pattern was created by a Sno-Fly Alumnae, Gary Hitterman (He goes by Arizona Bighands). Gary just lives down the road from me in Casa Grande, Arizona.
As the tyers from the first list of Sno-Fly VII are starting to wrap up there swap, we are already getting some great patterns from the second list of Sno-Fly !!!!! I have been very impressed with all the midge patterns, and I am ready to head on a nice long Winter fishing trip !!!! :thumbup:

mikeytwoshoes
12-10-2009, 05:44 PM
mailed mine today. don't expect to much from me. they're fish catchers for sure, but nothing special. like that stoo-pit book.

Alpinefly
12-11-2009, 12:58 PM
Mikey...ya know the proof is always on the stream (or in the lake). If the pattern hooks fish, then it is special !!!! You should never get down on your tying; it has always been excellent (you need to chase a couple of my morphine with a beer); :crazy: this rotary vise is starting to get to me . :think: Then again......stick with the Glennfiddich straight up !!!!!

Alpinefly
12-11-2009, 10:17 PM
I received a bunch of nicely tied midges from Eric, via Matt Schliske's Donkey this afternoon (Matt is on the first list of Sno-Fly) !!!! Thanks Eric !!!! :thumbup:

AndyBaird
12-12-2009, 04:20 AM
can't wait to see the pics :ugeek:

Alpinefly
12-14-2009, 11:35 AM
The first list of Sno-Fly VII Modern Midges Swap has wrapped up and packages are being assembled for those who contributed !!!! We had two No Shows on this list (even after all that time they could have pulled out and given their spot to someone who really wanted to be in this swap. The first No Show(......should I say Chuffer) is really on face book and a big name in the area of fly fishing and tying (a guide); Ken Capsey !!!!! I don't give a rip how big of a name you attain in the arena of fly fishing, fly tying, rod building, or whatever, there is something called committment !!! After several PM's he finally responded in a flippant way that he was sick and just didn't get them done (good God, I was in a hospital ICU for a whole week, and still managed to crank out 81 midge emergers)!!!! The other that goes by Pikepicker on the other board (what my friend Mikey would define as a tool, thankya very much) just plain out did not respond to several PM's !!!! As far as I am concerned, they are banned from all my swaps, and I do hope that others will take note if you host swaps, not to allow these two tools in your swap !!!! :x

Well, packages have started drifting in on this second list of Sno-Fly VII !!!!! As always, great tying by everyone !!!:bigthumb: Please, if there is a problem that you cannot make the deadline, let me know. THis is in all fairness to those who work hard to make the deadline and those who wanted to be in this swap but were unable to !!!

Alpinefly
12-15-2009, 03:04 PM
I received a package of Nicely tied (killer pattern) Shucka Khans from Mikeytwoshoes !!!
Mike is not only a fine tier (understatement), he also is a fantastic craftsmen of graphite and Bamboo Fly Rods !!!! Mike is a Sno-Fly Alumnae, and I am always happy to have his contribution each year !!!! Thanks Mike !!!!!!! :bigthumb:

Alpinefly
12-18-2009, 07:32 PM
It never ceases to amaze me; to literely captivate me into obsession. Someone will look at one of my size 32 midges and ask me, " What do you catch on this" ??? I answer, Large Trout !!!!! Over the years, I have constantly encountered this !!! I have also been asked what is a Snow Fly ??? Watch the magic along the stream on a warm Winter afternoon.
Little tiney black flies emerge from a cold snow bank along the stream. All of the sudden, you see trout sipping the Christmas candies !!!! A miracle that something so small and so seemingly insignificant can create so much magic on a Winter day !!!! Not too long ago, on a Christmas day, a small, seemingly insignificant baby emerged into the cold bitter world. We have all watched the magic of the Christ Child along the River Of Life !!!!! Christmas magic !!!! A miracle !!! The magic of the Little Snow Fly !!!!! I hope each and everyone of you will experience the special magic that the Little Snow Fly (The Christ Child) can bring you and your family this Christmas Season !!!!! :sunny:

Sean
12-19-2009, 01:57 AM
love fishing these small flies....it presents such a challenge.

Alpinefly
12-22-2009, 04:55 PM
Two great packages of slobberific midges just came in the mail from rich5665 and utyer !!!!
Also a special thanks to utyer for the extra flies he contributed to casting For Recovery !!!!
The ladies are once again going to be very happy this year !!!!! :bigthumb:

Alpinefly
12-25-2009, 03:33 PM
Keruso added a very nice package of Black Fly Midges just in time for Christmas !!!!
Wow !!!! Christmas Day already !!!!!!!

Alpinefly
12-26-2009, 12:55 PM
3 packages left to receive in the mail !!!!! Reminder that mail-in deadline for Sno-Fly VII is January 1st (New Years Day) !!!

Roy
12-31-2009, 07:08 AM
Posted mine earlier today.
Happy new year swappers,

Roy

Alpinefly
12-31-2009, 05:49 PM
HAPPY NEW YEAR & TIGHT LINES !!!!!! :cool:

Two packages left; I hope they are in the mail (blizz79 and littleman) !!!
I am ready for some tastey midgeing and big Trout !!!!! :thumbup:

Alpinefly
01-01-2010, 07:56 PM
TODAY IS MAIL-IN DEADLINE FOR SNO-FLY VII !!!!

I am still waiting on packages from blizz79 and littleman !!! I have not heard from either one of them !!!! :wtf: If you know either one of these people please, I would like to know what is going on !!!! It is one thing if there is a problem (and swapmeister should be contacted). It is another thing to just plain blow off a swap !!! There are people who wanted to be on the swap list that could not get on !!! It is unfair to those who have contributed as well as those who wanted to be in this swap !!! I thank those who kept their committment !!! I frown on those who have blown off the swap :thumbdown: (Like 2 that were on List #1) !!!!!
Happy New Year, and as soon as I have received all packages, or know for sure that the last two are NO SHOW, I will get all packages out to you !!!! AGAIN THANKS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!! :cool:

Alpinefly
01-02-2010, 02:58 PM
I just heard from blizz79 and littleman and their packages of midges are on the way !!!! :clap:
So just waiting on the postal donkey for three packages to arrive !!!! Once I get them, turn around time will be very fast !!!! I am super excited and know everyone is going to be quite pleased with the box of midges they receive !!!

Alpinefly
01-04-2010, 07:09 PM
Just received a package of midges from littleman !!! Nice Tying !!!!! Thanks for the extra contribution to Casting For Recovery (I am sure the ladies will be quite pleased) . Waiting on 2 packages in the mail (Bizz79 and Roy Christie) . Designed me another new midge pattern over the weekend. Now I have all kinds of good exuses to go fishing !!!! :cool:

Alpinefly
01-05-2010, 01:47 PM
Got home aound noon and just found a UPS package from Silverthorn, Colorado and Blizz79 !!! Just love those Kimballs Emergers !!!! :thumbup: Still early, and the regular mail has not come yet !!!! Hopefully Roy Christie's package will come in the mail today !!!!

Alpinefly
01-05-2010, 10:09 PM
OK....Roy Christie's package is the only one left that we are waiting on !!!!! ......what they say......always save the best for the last !!!!!! lol :P

Alpinefly
01-06-2010, 09:09 PM
.....As I said before, saveing the best for last, Roy Christie's package just arrived in the mail today from London (Middlesex) !!! Everybody is in for a real treat !!!
This means that all packages have been received, and I will prepare each person's box of Sno-Fly midges and get them sent out in the mail. I want to really thank each one of you for the committment you made for makeing this year's Sno-Fly Swap extra special. :clap: Two list worth of tyers and all I can say is wow. This has really been a "Modern Midges" celebration !!!! :bigthumb:

Alpinefly
01-06-2010, 09:46 PM
Will have to recheck link !!!! In your search Engine type "Bugs Of The Underworld Chapter 5 Midges"

This should bring you to a workable link on You Tube !!! This is the midges section of Ralph and Lisa Cutter's "Bugs Of The Underworld" !!! If you do not have the DVD, this will give you the chance to watch some amazeing photography of midges !!!!!! :thumbup:

AndyBaird
01-07-2010, 07:30 AM
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt_NGQEPZqNZU8/midges_chapter_5_of_the_bugs_of_the_underworld_dvd/

I am intrigued John... :eh:
Just clicked on the above link from my remote access card and was advised the content was RESTRICTED.... can't wait to find out what this is when I return to base tomorrow :thumbup:

Best,
Andy

Alpinefly
01-07-2010, 07:31 PM
Ahhhhh Cranky !!!! The link must not be working right !!!! Will delete and recheck !!!!!!!


Andy, recheck the post before your post, and just type what I said to type into the search engine !!!!! Bugs Of The Underworld Chapter 5 Midges !!!!

Alpinefly
01-12-2010, 12:21 AM
PACKAGES ARE IN THE MAIL.................LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU GET YOUR'S !!!! ***CHECK MAILER ENVELOPES CAREFULLY IN CASE ANY MIDGES FALL OUT OF CONTAINORS ! :cool:

Alpinefly
01-12-2010, 10:48 AM
RECIPE FOR GLO-LITE SERIES MIDGE EMERGER (originator & tyer: John Larson)


Hook: Daiichi 1120 (size 18) or hook equivalent
Thread: Color to match midge
Standard Tubeing (small): color to match midge
Crystal flash: Color to match midge
Glass Midge Bead: Color to match midge
CDC: Color to match midge
Step 1 : Put on bead at head of hook (I use a foundation of thread and superglue to secure bead)
Step 2 : Take a small length of small Standard (hollow) tubeing; follow the length measurement of
midge emerger species you are trying to imitate. Take a hot needle and lightly cauterize
one end. Insert crystal flash inside hollow tube and clip that end even !!! Tie onto hook
Step 2 is a multi-step for main body.
Step 3: Behind bead take 1/2 half CDC Oiler Puff (Color to match midge species) and tie forward
behind bead head.
Step 4: Dub Lite Brite (Or even Ice Dub) Color to match midge species on thorax (lightly dub) up to
slightly behind Bead.
Step 5: Tie in (figure 8) small section of crystal flash behind bead (make sure there are two light
dots on each side of midge head, and clip each side to that spec.)
Last Step: Whip finish, and grab a cold beer.......You now have a killer midge emerger for your box
You will want to tie up plenty in different colors !!!!


*** The Glo-Lite Series captures the three dimensional, transparent and color light refracted effect of the midge emerger in water (just under the surface film). I came to this idea of design after spending much time observing midge emergers on the water in my float tube, and after watching the amazeing photography of Ralph and Lisa Cutter (Bugs Of The Underworld).
Once you see this pattern in the sunlight and in the water, you will see what I mean !!! This pattern series is a little less then a year old, but already is tested and has proved its worth on the water !!!!

Roy
01-12-2010, 05:22 PM
[youtube:26oi4dqx]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGQEPZqNZU8[/youtube:26oi4dqx]

Bugs of the underworld
Ralph Cutter
Chapter 5 - Midges

There is an Avon Special emerger at 1min 49

cheers,
Roy

rossa
01-12-2010, 05:41 PM
RECIPE FOR GLO-LITE SERIES MIDGE EMERGER (originator & tyer: John Larson)


Hook: Daiichi 1120 (size 18) or hook equivalent
Thread: Color to match midge
Standard Tubeing (small): color to match midge
Crystal flash: Color to match midge
Glass Midge Bead: Color to match midge
CDC: Color to match midge
Step 1 : Put on bead at head of hook (I use a foundation of thread and superglue to secure bead)
Step 2 : Take a small length of small Standard (hollow) tubeing; follow the length measurement of
midge emerger species you are trying to imitate. Take a hot needle and lightly cauterize
one end. Insert crystal flash inside hollow tube and clip that end even !!! Tie onto hook
Step 2 is a multi-step for main body.
Step 3: Behind bead take 1/2 half CDC Oiler Puff (Color to match midge species) and tie forward
behind bead head.
Step 4: Dub Lite Brite (Or even Ice Dub) Color to match midge species on thorax (lightly dub) up to
slightly behind Bead.
Step 5: Tie in (figure 8) small section of crystal flash behind bead (make sure there are two light
dots on each side of midge head, and clip each side to that spec.)
Last Step: Whip finish, and grab a cold beer.......You now have a killer midge emerger for your box
You will want to tie up plenty in different colors !!!!


*** The Glo-Lite Series captures the three dimensional, transparent and color light refracted effect of the midge emerger in water (just under the surface film). I came to this idea of design after spending much time observing midge emergers on the water in my float tube, and after watching the amazeing photography of Ralph and Lisa Cutter (Bugs Of The Underworld).
Once you see this pattern in the sunlight and in the water, you will see what I mean !!! This pattern series is a little less then a year old, but already is tested and has proved its worth on the water !!!!

Any chance of a photo of the finished fly?

Alpinefly
01-13-2010, 11:25 AM
Yes Rossa !!!! If I can figure out posting the photos on this site !!!! Will try and download one of the photos to photo Bucket and see what happens !!!! I have not had any luck being able to post photos on smallstreams so far !!!!!

Alpinefly
01-13-2010, 11:36 AM
The photo above is of the #18 Blood Chironomid Emerger from the Glo-Lite Midge Emerger Series !!!!!

Alpinefly
01-13-2010, 11:48 AM
Here is a photo of the Ghost Emerger From the Glo-Lite Midge Emerger Series !!!





[attachment=0:1y79u6px]GetAttachment%20Sno-Fly%20VII%20#1.jpg[/attachment:1y79u6px]

Alpinefly
01-13-2010, 11:50 AM
Is there anybody who wants to volunteer to photograph the midges from Sno-Fly VII List Two
Midge swap and post on here ??? I sure would appreciate it !!!!!! Thanks !!!!

Alpinefly
01-13-2010, 12:00 PM
Thanks Roy for getting the direct Video of Ralph and Lisa Cutter's Chapter 5, Bugs Of The Underworld posted !!!! This DVD along with Rick Takahashi's new book, "Modern Midges" belongs in everybody's tying library !!!!! :thumbup:

rossa
01-13-2010, 01:03 PM
Alpinefly, thanks very much for that. I was having some trouble visualising the finished fly.
That is a pretty amazing concept and obviously colours can be changed. Any particular method of fishing the fly? And is there any particular tubing you use?

Alpinefly
01-13-2010, 01:58 PM
Small Standard (Hollow)Tubeing (comes in many different colors) !!!! My major colors are red, clear, black (I use clear tubeing and black crystal flash), green, and blue (clear tubeing and Blue Crystal Flash).
Also yellow is cool !!!! I dowse with some floatant which gives it that extra emerger lift !!!
With the CDC, ya really don't need to do too much !!! It is also great as a dropper off a dry/dropper !!!!
In the first list of Sno-Fly tyers got the Red, Clear, and Olive.
In the second list of Sno-Fly, Tyers got the Black, Red, and Clear.

I was quite happy with the photography that Graham Owen did, as he was able to capture some of the Glo Lights (light spots) inside the tubeing. There are also two on each side of the head (behind the bead). You get some idea of the three dimmensional of a midge emerger :ugeek: ; the transparency, the color and UV effects, etc. Again, you really have to see this in the sunlight and the water to get the real effect, and when you see this side by side with a real midge emerger in the water, then the whole concept becomes quite clear !!!!!!!

There is a lot of great advise in Takahashi's "Modern Midges" book on fishing these type of patterns.

rossa
01-13-2010, 05:41 PM
There's a picture of emerging midge in the links below, some times they almost look metallic!!
http://www.bassbug.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/buzzer.jpeg
http://www.flyfishersrepublic.com/entom ... e-pupa.jpg (http://www.flyfishersrepublic.com/entomology/diptera/chironomid/midge-pupa.jpg)

Alpinefly
01-13-2010, 07:10 PM
Yes, you can get that metalic look on some (why a zebra midge works very nicely); especially on some of the black midges (like in your picture) !!!! Buzzers as well !!! When you consider how many species of Chironomid and Diptera there are, ideas of pattern design are endless !!!!!

Alpinefly
01-24-2010, 12:14 AM
Would appreciate if anyone would like to photograph the midges from this second list, and post them !!!!!!! THANKS !!!!!!!!!!! ;)

Roy
01-28-2010, 12:56 PM
got my set, thanks, folks, excellent work

cheers,
Roy